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The Beautiful Bad Move |
Posted by: Geoff Chandler - 17-07-2013, 05:43 PM - Forum: Games Analysis
- Replies (14)
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You know I rabbit on all the time about what computers show you and what is hidden
because they do not deem it worthy to show or even consider.
And how often it is these very human lines that it tucks away that are instructive
regarding how humans think.
When we get them thinking cheapo and counter cheapo, anticipating bad but human type moves
then we will have a machine that will be of some good.
(maybe display in bright red what it considers is a human sneaky pete move with it's fun analysis)
Basically a machine that spots and invents traps and instead of this 1.56 nonsense.
it can display them using coloured skulls.
Yellow - a blitz/skittles try.
Green - Go for it if you feel Lucky
Blue - Plausible, an average human will blunder in the calculation.
Red - 99% chance the human will miss it.
Or something like that.
You cannot win unless an opponent blunders.
Currently when these things look at positions they are looking for the best move from each side.
It is not looking at what possible tricks an opponent may play v you even if it carries a red skull rating.
An example from a recent 5/0 on Gameknot where I go by the name of Kid Zebra (thank you J.Rowson.)
I'm White and after these blitz'd out opening moves. (from memory but the critical position is coorect.)
[pgn]1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. Bb5+ Bd7 4. Qe2 a6 5. Bxd7+ Nxd7 6. O-O Ngf6 7. c4 e6
8. Rd1 Be7 9. d4 O-O 10. e5 Ne8 11. exd6 Bxd6 12. dxc5 Bxc5[/pgn]*
we reach here:
[pos]r2qnrk1/1p1n1ppp/p3p3/2b5/2P5/5N2/PP2QPPP/RNBR2K1 w - - 0 13[/pos]
And I have a quick think. 13.Ng5
[pos]r2qnrk1/1p1n1ppp/p3p3/2b3N1/2P5/8/PP2QPPP/RNBR2K1 b - - 0 13[/pos]
That is Chandler in full cheapo blitz mode. (Infact knowing me I'd most likely play it anywhere.)
Threat Qd3 hitting h7 and the pinned Knight (the source of the idea) on d7.
Don't go any further, what would you as Black play here. Have a wee think.
I bet you 13.Ng5 won't be spat out by any computer and I'm 100% sure Black's reply....
(answer coming....)
13...Bb4!@
[pos]r2qnrk1/1p1n1ppp/p3p3/6N1/1bP5/8/PP2QPPP/RNBR2K1 w - - 0 14[/pos]
Won't be either.
(the !@ symbol means it's a beautiful bad move...Lots of players lose to beautiful bad moves)
What a wonderful human move played after about 30 seconds thought.
It's a counter cheapo, a human v human move. Mr Fox meets Mr Crafty.
A computer would not go nowhere this position and it is these ideas that these things
cannot and do not show.
OK it's a crude example but I wonder how many complicated and wonderful variations which though
unsound and would tax even the best players to find a refuatation with a clock ticking these things
have tucked away.
[pos]r2qnrk1/1p1n1ppp/p3p3/6N1/1bP5/8/PP2QPPP/RNBR2K1 w - - 0 14[/pos]
White can win a pawn, chop the Queens and end up with a Rook on the 7th. End Kid Zebra's of analysis.
So the game continues....(use the wee arrows things to move the bits.)
[pgn][FEN "r2qnrk1/1p1n1ppp/p3p3/6N1/1bP5/8/PP2QPPP/RNBR2K1 w - - 0 14"]
14. Qd3 Nef6 {I'd like to think if this was a real game I'd stop mid-combo and play the counter-counter cheapo 15.a3 here which ruins Black wee scam.} 15. Nxh7 Nxh7 16. Qxd7 {And the moment I played this I went 'booger' I've been done!} 16... Qxd7 17. Rxd7 Rfd8[/pgn]
[pos]r2r2k1/1p1R1ppn/p3p3/8/1bP5/8/PP3PPP/RNB3K1 w - - 0 18[/pos]
Three choices.
18.Rxd8 Rxd8 and thanks to my weak back rank and his 13...Bb4 (see the idea now) I lose a piece.
18.Rd2 (best) and I drop the exchange.
18 Resigns, the chosen option.
You don't play on the exchange down trying to win on time, that is cry baby win at all costs chess.
Just let it go. You won't die.
It's not all that often I get done like that. Usually I lose because I over sac or just play bad.
So that is what it feels like to be cheaped. It's not too bad, why do you guys make such fuss over it?
All we need is one of you chaps with the latest toy to verify that my Ng5 and his Bb4 are not
in the computers hit parade and show up in the top 3 (or top 5.....top 10.....top 20?)
And then give me tel number of the the Fritz HQ so I can tell them were they are going wrong.
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Women's European Individual |
Posted by: Alan Tate - 17-07-2013, 02:15 PM - Forum: Scots Abroad
- Replies (2)
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<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://chess-results.com/tnr98226.aspx?art=0&lan=1&turdet=YES&flag=30&wi=984">http://chess-results.com/tnr98226.aspx? ... =30&wi=984</a><!-- m -->
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World Record for Roddy? |
Posted by: Andy Howie - 16-07-2013, 08:34 PM - Forum: General Chess Chat
- Replies (17)
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I've just been alerted by the London Chess Classic feed that Roddy may have broken the world record for the longest time between first win at a national championships and last. The first win was in 1971, some 42 years ago!!!
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Czech Open |
Posted by: Nigel Chapman - 16-07-2013, 05:00 PM - Forum: Scots Abroad
- Replies (10)
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There are currently 5 Scottish players registered for the Czech Open starting Saturday 20th July.
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.czechopen.net/en/news/registered-players/">http://www.czechopen.net/en/news/registered-players/</a><!-- m -->
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Andorra Open |
Posted by: Adam Bremner - 16-07-2013, 04:02 PM - Forum: Scots Abroad
- Replies (10)
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For anyone interested, there are 19!! of us playing the Andorra Open. You can see the tournament here: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.escacsandorra.com/openprev/en_jugadors.php">http://www.escacsandorra.com/openprev/en_jugadors.php</a><!-- m -->. Event starts on 20th July.
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Ladder Chess |
Posted by: KevinCampbell - 16-07-2013, 01:33 PM - Forum: General Chess Chat
- Replies (3)
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Hi!
When I was involved in the Aberdeen School's project, one of the things we used to do was "Ladder Chess".
Everyone involved had a rank so if there were 20, 1-20.
Say number 2 rank played number 10, if number 10 won they would move up a few places and number 2 would drop a couple of spots.
It was proved very popular and was good fun.
I was just wondering if anyone knows the proper title for this? And a decent way of sorting out rules?
Thanks
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Last round game W Buchanan v A Muir |
Posted by: WBuchanan - 16-07-2013, 03:34 AM - Forum: Games Analysis
- Replies (11)
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From the recent Scottish Championships
Andy informs me this was the 35th game between us. Somewhere around the fifteenth game we realized that neither of us had ever been more than plus one, so we compared it to a set in a tennis match. Finally the ‘first set’ was won 12.5-10.5 by Andy (after I missed a few ‘set points’), who then walked through the second set 6-3 which I think was 3-0 in wins. However my interest is just kept from being extinguished by being one up in the third set…
Before the last round, 12 players could (in theory) win the Scottish Championship title outright, including both of us - but this latter outcome would require all five Scots on 5 to lose to their (mostly GM) opponents, and the others on 4.5 all to draw. If I could beat Andy I reckoned my chances of being the unworthy winner were about 2000 to 1 - not worth biting my nails for, I thought.
To the game
Andy describes this game as an epic; this is probably not because of the length of our little series, but due to the possibilities that arose near the end of the game. Our opinions in the post mortem changed constantly, and in fact our final consensus was also wrong. However, Houdini doesn’t do much better.
[pos]6k1/p4p1p/1p1q2p1/2pr4/8/4P1P1/PPQ2P1P/2R3K1 w - - 0 25[/pos]
Black had a comfortable opening and is clearly a bit better here. I played 25 Qa4 in order to see a bit of daylight and Andy replied Rd2. There followed 26 Rc2 Rd1+ 27 Kg2.
[pos]6k1/p4p1p/1p4p1/2pq4/Q7/4P1P1/PPR2PKP/3r4 w - - 6 28[/pos]
Black is at the crossroads; he can gradually improve his position with moves like h5 or Kf8 in anticipation of a rook ending, and keeping a plus – especially with me being a bit short of time (there must have been something wrong with the clock). Or he can consider the more direct Qd5+ which forces White’s hand because f3 loses a pawn after Rd2+, or if instead Kh3?? Rg1 penetrates; so W has to play e4 after which Black could play Qd3 (but watch that check on e8). On the other hand, e4 forces Black’s hand in turn because if then Qd4 the rook ending isn’t dangerous enough yet and if Qe6 or Qe5 White has the trick Rxc5.
Andy perhaps rather hastily went for the committal 27 … Qd5+ 28 e4 Qd3 (now the only way to keep trying to win) 29 Qe8+ Kg7 30 Qe5+
Now f6 is met most simply by Qc7+.
30 … Kf8 31 Qb8+
[pos]1Q3k2/p4p1p/1p4p1/2p5/4P3/3q2P1/PPR2PKP/3r4 b - - 6 31[/pos]
31 … Ke7!
A cunning move, as if Qc7+ Kf6! Qf4+ Ke6 the checks run out: Qg4+ Kd6. White can bail out with Qe2 but Black has made progress in the rook ending – the King is now handily placed thanks to my checks, and he can start with c4 and Kc5, though the draw can probably still be held.
32 Qxa7+
Now – the crunch.
[pos]8/Q3kp1p/1p4p1/2p5/4P3/3q2P1/PPR2PKP/3r4 b - - 0 32[/pos]
Black’s last move was played quite quickly, as Black can still safely go back to f8 and g7 with an easy draw.
What do YOU play?
32 … Kf6!
Andy took a while over this. The (!) is for the calculated gamble - which turns out to be correct - and the guile. I didn’t believe Andy would go for this, and was quite happy that he was presenting me with his queenside. In fact, I was willing him. Come on, Andy! (as they say…) Firstly I didn’t believe there would be a forced mate; secondly I was threatening perpetual check, and lastly, I would have three long, lovely minutes to look for a flight square or other defence. Was I on a break point!?
33 Qxb6+ Kg7 34 Qxc5 Qf1+ 35 Kf3 Rd3+
[pos]8/5pkp/6p1/2Q5/4P3/3r1KP1/PPR2P1P/5q2 w - - 3 36[/pos]
What do YOU play?
36 Kf4
36 Kg4 was possible – but why give him two or three checks instead of none? Didn't seem logical.
This also didn’t seem the logical moment to have my think, better to reserve the time for when I can see his actual threat. Besides, at the moment I’ve got a draw with Qe5+ as f6?? gets mated: Qe7+ Kh6 Qf8+ Kg5 g4+ and mates.
36 … Qg2!
[pos]8/5pkp/6p1/2Q5/4PK2/3r2P1/PPR2PqP/8 w - - 5 37[/pos]
This threatens a quick mate with Qf3+. It also scuppers my perpetual with the queen (with the BK on h5, the black queen stops my g4+) so the first thing I did was look for another one. What about the rook? Qe5+ f6 Rc7+ Kh6 is menacing but Rxh7+ Kxh7 Qe7+ does the trick, as with the h-pawn gone Black can’t run to h5.
I can’t run with the King as f6+ mates; and Kg4 invites pawn checks. Not seeing anything obvious, I took the draw with Qe5+ etc.
Result: 1/2 - 1/2.
Did I have better? In the post-mortem we thought White had 37 Qe5+ f6 38 Qe7+ Kh6 39 Kg4! now that the BK blocks that dangerous h-pawn check. True Black now has a perpetual with Qf3+ Kh3 Qh5+ and Qf3+ etc, but the question arose whether Black had a clear win or with the tournament situation perhaps inviting risks (only two results short of the required miracle), the game might happily continue along the precipice. Black has a decent winning/losing try with the other pawn check 39 … f5+! 40 Kf4 (evidently best…) Qf3+ Ke6 Qxe4+ Kf6 Qd4+
[pos]8/4Q2p/5Kpk/5p2/3q4/3r2P1/PPR2P1P/8 w - - 2 43[/pos]
43 Kf7 (Keep running! Qe5 loses for White)
43 … Qd5+ (Now Qg7+ loses for Black as after Ke8 Qg8+ the queen interposes with check)
44 Kf6 (not Qe6? the quiet move Qd8 wins).
And now it’s Black who has to repeat moves!
The most interesting line is that ‘illogical’ Kg4 I declined earlier, back at move 36:
[pos]8/5pkp/6p1/2Q5/4P1K1/3r2P1/PPR2P1P/5q2 b - - 4 36[/pos]
36 Kg4 is however logical to Houdini, which after 3 minutes evaluates as pretty much a White win (+0.90) despite the checks. For example 36 .. h5+ (which also stops my perpetual check) 37 Kh4 the most obvious move is Qd1 but h3 stops the immediate threats and White is 3 pawns up. We got that far in the PM.
It seems I missed a good opportunity to beat an IM. But as usual in this ending, ‘seems’ isn’t enough – the players and kibitzers were wrong. The computer is wrong! There is no win! Though, I need the computer to prove it…running it over longer than the time it would have in a game.
After 36 Kg4 Black plays Qd1+ 37 Kh4 h6:
[pos]8/5pk1/6pp/2Q5/4P2K/3r2P1/PPR2P1P/3q4 w - - 0 38[/pos]
Despite the near-decisive negative computer evaluation, Black is able to plug away and the advantage dissipates as White keeps shedding pawns to stop mate threats. In one line B gets his pawn to h3, in another he gets the e4 pawn then W has to do Qf4 and B trades queens, doubling the f-pawns then with the R on the seventh, takes on b2 - with a probably drawn ending!
I’ll just give two sample computer lines arising from this line (with genuine apologies to the Barefoot Bronstein in Edinburgh):
1) 38 f4 Kh7 39. Kh3 h5 40. Qf2 Qg4+ 41. Kg2 h4 42. Qe2 h3+ 43. Kf1 Qd7 and White has to play 44 f5 Kg7 45 Rc1 Rd2 46 Qc4 Rxh2
[pos]8/3q1pk1/6p1/5P2/2Q1P3/6Pp/PP5r/2R2K2 w - - 0 47[/pos]
2) 38 Rc1 Qe2 39 Kh3 Qxe4 40 Qc4 Qf3 41 a4 Kh7 42 Re1 Rd2 43Qf4 Qxf4 44 gxf4 Rxb2
[pos]8/5p1k/6pp/8/P4P2/7K/1r3P1P/4R3 w - - 0 45[/pos]
This heavy piece endgame would have been fun to play in time trouble, especially if the championship had happened to depend on the outcome! So here is my suggestion for championship tie breaks - all the players involved play preset, computer-generated ‘precipice’ positions, with five minutes on the clock...
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202 Games from Scottish 2013 - Live Boards |
Posted by: William Hulme - 14-07-2013, 08:23 PM - Forum: The Games Zone
- Replies (1)
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I have assembled 202 games from the live boards broadcasts, tidied up the names into Chessbase format and made available now via CS downloads page - enjoy!
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.chessscotland.com/gamedownload/games.htm">http://www.chessscotland.com/gamedownload/games.htm</a><!-- m -->
(scroll down to Scottish Championships - Helensburgh 2013)
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Scottish - Round 8 |
Posted by: William Hulme - 13-07-2013, 02:31 PM - Forum: Tournaments and Events
- Replies (3)
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...thought I'd start a topic on the chess today!
Alan Tate is killing GM HERA (2558)
Looking at the position on the live boards after move 16.Bc4 e6
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://rs8.blueapricot.com/scottish/2013/r8a/tfd.htm">http://rs8.blueapricot.com/scottish/2013/r8a/tfd.htm</a><!-- m -->
Alan has just played 17.d6 - looks winning for White :U
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These Live Boards are a Load of Tosh! |
Posted by: Geoff Chandler - 12-07-2013, 01:12 PM - Forum: General Chess Chat
- Replies (6)
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I have 7 games lifted from the Live Games pages.
The PGN Download page still says 'Coming Soon..."
What will come first I wonder.
The 120 Scottish PGN's or Hibs lifting the Scottish Cup.
But let us look at these very rare 7 precious gems.
By the way things are looking it will be the only 7 games anyone gets to see.
Nickl v Brown, the score is not there, just the result.
No doubt because the live board packed up.
Oswald - Gulian and McCrae - BUchananen open with 1.d4.
Fischer states he did not play 1.d4 on principle so following
the same principle I never look at games that begin with 1.d4
McKerracher - Borwell I can see right away White played 3.g3.
White players who fianchetto their King's Bishop always play boring games.
(it's not their fault, they are boring people.)
The Black King's Bishop should always be finachettoed.
The White KB belongs on c4 for a max of 3 moves then it goes to f7.
This was another game not worth playing over.
Roy - Robertson
Something wrong here and yet again the live boards must be to blame.
[pos]r1b2rk1/p3qpp1/3bpn1p/2p5/8/2PQBN2/PPB2PPP/3R1RK1 b - - 0 19[/pos]
The score states the game continued 17...Bc7 18.Qc4 Bd6 19.Qd3 Bc7
on and on then gives ½ - ½
So it obviously got stuck in a repeating glitch type loop.
(Note the use of computers terms...I know what I am talking about.)
Nicholson - Burrows is given as a draw and yet the final position is:
[pos]8/3k4/8/2P4p/8/8/8/K7 w - h6 0 57[/pos]
Any fool can see that the h-pawn cannot be caught.
Even Dicky Reti could not make a valid study out of this.
Yet we are given ½ - ½.
(check it for yourself I would not make this up.)
Conclusion: These live boards are a load of tosh!
The four people out there who are sitting watching these games are not being fed the right moves.
Look at this from Schmerwitz - Green.
(who is Schmerwitz? Are these live boards are now making up names?)
Here: Black Andrew Green to play.
[pos]r1bq1rk1/pp2ppbp/2np1np1/8/3NP1P1/2N1BP2/PPPQ3P/R3KB1R b KQ - 0 9[/pos]
The PGN says Andrew played 9...Bxg4??
I know Andrew, we attend the same knitting class at Great Junction Street.
As I type this I am wearing a pair of grey hand-knitted socks he gave me last Christmas.
Andrew does not go around blundering pieces away.
So yet another goof up by these live boards.
Shut these things down, get that Carlos guy who is working on them to to enter the PGN's.
Get him to do it by hand, do not let him near a computer.
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