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+--- Thread: Domestic touraments survey (/thread-1469.html)
Re: Domestic touraments survey - amuir - 16-08-2016
I agree with Steve M in that Largs being FIDE rated deters IMs from playing.
Re: Domestic touraments survey - George Neave - 16-08-2016
hamish olson Wrote:Walter you can do polls I'm pretty sure. You don't need any administrator status - George has done them before. I'm not sure how but it's possible!
True - I did lot of polls before but, to date, no action has been taken to implement any of the the poll results.
Re: Domestic touraments survey - Ianbrownlee - 16-08-2016
On page 1 of this thread I gave the results of this survey which was posted in May! On the same post I mentioned we were considering introducing a FIDE rated national Rapid play championship which got a positive response. I now feel we are descending into a mud slinging match at CS claiming we dont listen (untrue) and we are responsible for Chess Scotland moving into the ice age ( again most unfair and untrue) As such I will be taking no further discussion into this thread. I have offered further personal discussion which hasnt been taken up yet.. I suggest interested parties go the the AGM where a further discussion will taken place. If you feel aggrieved that CS officials are not doing their job, that is what the AGM is for. Also if you feel you can do a better job , then run for one of the posts or vote against one or more of the directors
Re: Domestic touraments survey - WBuchanan - 16-08-2016
Mudslinging - really? I don’t believe that. The words you use do matter Ian. I didn’t say you didn’t listen but that you (or CS, though there have been some signs of understanding from Dougie and Jim) have avoided getting clear feedback and ignored the (now at least five) pieces of adverse feedback you have received on the subject matter of more Fide ratings. Just as I don’t think CS were being ‘held responsible’ for the possible doomsday scenario suggested by Jonathan.
I won’t trouble you again Ian – I just don’t think you are engaging with what is being said to you. If you were you wouldn’t retreat to these unnecessary ‘counterattacks’.
Consultation issues aside, I do appreciate your ideas and the work you are putting in though. Cheers
Re: Domestic touraments survey - Adam Bremner - 16-08-2016
amuir Wrote:I agree with Steve M in that Largs being FIDE rated deters IMs from playing.
It deters certain IMs. There is a HUGE potential prize fund there to be won...
Re: Domestic touraments survey - Jonathan Livingstone - 16-08-2016
Phil Thomas Wrote:End of selective quotation
Jonathan,
surely a better way to measure the decline or stability of organised chess in Scotland is to measure the number of games submitted for grading per season. I don't have the numbers to hand but Dougie probably does.
PS
The Plesiosaurs actually became extinct at the same time as the dinosaurs = 65 million years ago.
unless the Loch Ness monster is a plesiosaur
Phil I don't understand what you consider to be selective in the weekend congresses used for statistics. Feel free to explain of course and I am happy to listen. I picked the core events, which had tangible data, i.e. had been running year on year and used the last 3 years which seemed reasonable. Some faired okay, most faired a decline, and the overall average is a clear decline, no surprise to anyone surely.
You can of course present similar information in alternative fashion if you wish.
My knowledge of the Ice Age, merely extends to the Ice Age movies. My poor history knowledge aside, I think the analogy with a hole or to fits well and got my point across
Ianbrownlee Wrote:I now feel we are descending into a mud slinging match at CS claiming we dont listen (untrue) and we are responsible for Chess Scotland moving into the ice age ( again most unfair and untrue)
Hi Ian, I would just like to clarify that point for the benefit of those who may have just tuned into the last page of the discussion. I did state (not for the first time now), that I feel Scottish Chess is doomed. I did compare the state of Scottish Chess and its decline to the Ice Age. I did not however slate Chess Scotland in any way or mud sling.
I think it was a good debate/discussion and you should continue as long as it has legs, no reason not to really.
Re: Domestic touraments survey - Phil Thomas - 16-08-2016
Jonathan
I meant a selective quotation in that I copied through only a very small part of your long posting.
I was suggesting that since the number of congresses per year fluctuates ...an easier and potentially better way to measure chess activity in Scotland could be to measure the total number of graded games per year.
While that sounds like a lot of work it is likely that the number is readily taken from Dougie' s unpublished data.
One could argue that league and congress game are different beasts but my view is that the sum of the two quantities can be used as a key indicator of the health of the overall chess scene in Scotland.
Re: Domestic touraments survey - Jonathan Livingstone - 16-08-2016
I take your point Phil and I agree that rated games should be a consideration in the overall picture. It is never straight forward though. The local league association where I live (The Lothian League), has approx, 40 teams and 14 member clubs. There is not only X Club Team 1, X Club Team 2 etc, but there are many instances of players playing various within multiple divisions. That can skew the data. Even if you can have 1 million games rated over the season, those 1 million games could in theory be majority accounted for by the same 75% section of players, from 2 single regions as an example. It is not always the success story it may appear to be and it becomes very hard to use general data as tangible data for a true measure of the picture.
The state of local club chess must also be used, and the membership numbers of these clubs as a whole. There is often a group of the same players playing in various events. You do also have to look at things on a regional basis also. So yes there are 1 or 2 regions with reasonable activity. But look at the East, and what little it has left in congress activity. The club scene in my council region of East Lothian is a bit grim. We are coming to that time of year where club secs receive their invitations to enter their club into Rich/Spens, or what is left of them (I don't want to give you a heart attack Ian, honestly
)There is of course pockets of happiness, be it the SNCL, a Bon Accord, the Tayside region or a few congress choices in the West. But there is also the many sad situations, of local clubs across the country struggling to survive, and struggling events.
Going back to the Ice Age theory (I am obsessed I know), the Wooly Mammoth died off generaly with the exception of a couple of islands where they survived for another 5000 years after the general extension before becoming officialy absent and extinct. That's where we are?
Re: Domestic touraments survey - Ianbrownlee - 16-08-2016
Jonathan Livingstone Wrote:The state of local club chess must also be used, and the membership numbers of these clubs as a whole. There is often a group of the same players playing in various events. You do also have to look at things on a regional basis also. So yes there are 1 or 2 regions with reasonable activity. But look at the East, and what little it has left in congress activity. The club scene in my council region of East Lothian is a bit grim. We are coming to that time of year where club secs receive their invitations to enter their club into Rich/Spens, or what is left of them (I don't want to give you a heart attack Ian, honestly )Yes I know chess is in decline in some areas- or at best stagnant. However it is thriving in other areas such as the SNCL and in online chess. The big question is how to address this especially in medium to strong chess players. There is not one easy answer to this or we would have found it by now. To me there are several areas to tackle
1. Bring the youth on to a reasonable standard. The primary school standard is getting better all the time. Unfortunately there is a major dip at the secondary school age. There are many reasons for this including lack of resources, lack of any communication between schools and local clubs, and a general lack of enthusiasm from schools and teachers. When we had the likes of John Connelly and John Banks and their ilk Chess was thriving. Of course we have the likes or Harry Marron and a few others working countless hours but we really need to bridge the gap between secondary schools and college\University and beyond. This will be on e of the tasks of the Youth Development officer which CS hopes to address this
2. Money. We need it and we at CS plan to get it, and once we've got it its a whole new ball game.
3. Challenges and incentives This is where the rewards come in such as (you knew I was coming to this) International selections, FIDE grades and money (SEE point 2 in a weird way) Once this is sorted the strong (Cream) will rise to the top and we will all benefit.
4. Online Chess. This is not a beast killing chess but chess in another form. Chess.com already has umpteen Scottish teams and leagues and the average woodshifter can easily play someone from the other side of the world. What OTB players can offer is the socialbility (I know that's not a word Phil) of meeting up for a club night even on a winter's night and have some fun with some juice or a coffee.
5. Co-operation. To paraphrase JFK "ask me not what chess does for me but what I can do for chess" He was thinking of Fischer at the tie. You get the idea. Don't chuck stones at the CS window. Each of us can play its part to promote chess in general and OTB specifically
I wont have a heart attack, its my father in law who had one last night, but he's OK
Re: Domestic touraments survey - Graham Kerr - 16-08-2016
I don't want to burst your online chess bubble Ian, but chess.com don't deal with the cheating problem sufficiently... even titled players have been caught cheating, as well as winners of Titled Tuesday.
I recently closed my chess.com account after i was paired in a tournament against a guy who'd been banned not once but twice before...
I'll stick with OTB, where i know my opponent isn't cheating ;-)