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+--- Thread: question re blitz chess draw by repetition (/thread-1451.html)
Re: question re blitz chess draw by repetition - Andy Howie - 29-03-2016
CS Rules I would love to see a buzzer used :p
Re: question re blitz chess draw by repetition - Ianbrownlee - 29-03-2016
rather embarrassing from the home director so here goes to my external shame....
first of all I was playing for Hamilton B in a match where Alexander Bond was playing Donald Heron. The perpetual draw issue came up where it was ruled that a draw could not be claimed. I personally thought by demonstrating the perpetual draw had occured using half a dozen witnesses was valid but Ken said no and explained the reasons why. However two rounds later my opponent claimed a draw against me and i refused and after the game I explained why I had played on which meant I won the game why, so in my position it balanced out. Having lost two games with putting my king in check twice and putting my queen en prise I really had a topsy turvey tournament.
My question is was Alexander entitled to pause the clock in order to call an arbiter? Alexander was told both by his opponent and the opposing team captain he couldnt pause the clock. If so and the arbiter is now present could the arbiter now "witness" the perpetual moves.
My shame is twofold.. I won a game on time when in normal chess it probably would have been a draw and secondly i misinterpreted Ken's pre tournament instructions when he said taking an opponents king was illegal, I failed to see playing al illegal move by placing your king in check or failing to spot your king was already in check (ahem) lost the game.
Anyway I really enjoyed myself nevertheless and I intend to play again next in whatever team would have me!
Re: question re blitz chess draw by repetition - Ken_Stewart - 30-03-2016
Time is inevitably a factor in blitz; if you fall behind you are always liable to be at a disadvantage. Some of the means of taking advantage of this are more ethical than others. On Sunday I thought some instances went beyond what is reasonable.
In my previous post I tried to explain why I see a claim requiring an arbiter to deal with an illegal move, etc is different from a claim requiring an arbiter to watch one game for an extended period.
A player is entitled to pause the clock to call an arbiter – time to speak to the arbiter should not depend on the chance of how close the arbiter happens to be at the time. However, the arbiter would be entitled to give the player a time penalty if he thought the claim was frivolous (or designed to gain thinking time).
It has been made clear “officially” that taking the king is to be regarded as an illegal move. Though I have sympathy with the tradition (and have done it myself often enough) (a) it destroys evidence of the king being in check and (b) the arbiter has to follow the Laws as they are, not as he might wish them to be.
Re: question re blitz chess draw by repetition - Ianbrownlee - 31-03-2016
thanks Ken for that clarification. I really enjoyed myself on Sunday and recommend playing in these blitz tournaments
Re: question re blitz chess draw by repetition - Andy Howie - 31-03-2016
Ken_Stewart Wrote:(b) the arbiter has to follow the Laws as they are, not as he might wish them to be.
Could not have put it any better
Re: question re blitz chess draw by repetition - donaldheron - 31-03-2016
Andy Howie Wrote:I would agree if there were any rules but there are no rules. In Ken's first reply he sain that he looked for a CS rule and could not find one: neither could I. He also said that the FIDE rules could not apply because we do not play under FIDE conditions. Therefore there are no rules to follow. There is no CS rule to say which FIDE rules can be applied and which do not. IN Ken's second reply he seemed to think that the only illegal move was to take the King. What about moving a piece to the wrong square. No one can observe it. How is that any different to repeating moves? May I suggest that CS rules are formulated. At present it is all arbitrary. You can be sure that I am taking a totally disinterested view on this as I will not be playing blitz again - it would be rewarding, however, if something is learned and improvements made.Ken_Stewart Wrote:(b) the arbiter has to follow the Laws as they are, not as he might wish them to be.
Could not have put it any better
Re: question re blitz chess draw by repetition - Adam Bremner - 31-03-2016
Out of interest, does the rule change when moving from blitz to allegro chess? I ask because I claimed a threefold at the Northern Unis Champs this year and it caused a lot of confusion. Being 25mins I wasn't recording. Fortunately despite the importance of the game, my opponent agreed we had repeated and accepted the draw, despite being obviously unhappy with the result.
People put Ken in a difficult position on Sunday, but he was consistent and no complaints there. Probably best I stay quiet on the ethics question!
Re: question re blitz chess draw by repetition - donaldheron - 01-04-2016
I thought thay maybe you had solved it so I looked it up. CS rapidplay rules seem to be the same. That is there is no rule on repetition of moves. This should mean that the FIDE rules apply but they do not because there are too many games per arbiter. This means that there are no rules in allegro chess either. This idea that there are no rules because an arbiter is not present cannot be right. Anyway given that this is the case I think I will give up allegro chess also as it too seems to be non-chess. As far as I am concerned that is an end to the matter. For other people's sake I hope someone can sort something out.
Re: question re blitz chess draw by repetition - Ianbrownlee - 01-04-2016
as I hope to take the arbiters course in the near future I sort of did a wee bit of digging on this and I have come to the following conclusions
1. Any player can pause the clock at any time in any tournament unless there is a local rule (possibly in rules of play) specifically forbidding this
2. There is no intervention of any team captain or any other player unless the team captain(s) are appointed arbiter because of an absence of arbiter.
3. Any senior arbiter can appoint anyone as arbiter during a tournament priot to commencement except FIDE tournaments
4. A score sheet is not required during a draw claim as the arbiter is entitled to watch a few moves once the game is recommenced. ( a surprising bit for me was that the position has only to be on the board three times not repeated three times ) A score sheet is required however if a claim is to be made regarding no attempt is being made to win a game
5. Blitz rules are a bit different because of the unique importance of time and are diffent from allegro and quickplay finish rules
6. Here's a scenario for you to answer. White player plays an illegal move and either leaves his king in check or puts his king in check ( I did both on Sunday!) Black responds by taking the king . Whats the result ? The answer may surprise you!
Re: question re blitz chess draw by repetition - Alan Tate - 01-04-2016
I hate to sound like a broken record but increment sorts out all this nonsense because players stop playing ONLY on time.