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+--- Thread: East of Scotland – No longer a standalone tournie? (/thread-181.html)
Re: East of Scotland – No longer a standalone tournie? - George Neave - 11-02-2012
Hugh Brechin Wrote:Quote:I think those criticising the Stars Barred (most of them players from the East too) perhaps need to have a look inwards. ;P
Pretty much just me, really!
OK finally felt I had to register despite the daft "must use your real name" rule.
Hugh - I agree. Quite simply beggars belief that anyone would go to trouble of setting up an event in country with so few active players then specifically exclude any group of players. Fact that it is most capable players on this just makes it seem all the more bizarre. Fact that this comes from same people who run national body is extremely depressing. It is little wonder the players putting most effort into their chess now play much or their chess abroad. Very sad in my opinion.
Re: East of Scotland – No longer a standalone tournie? - George Neave - 11-02-2012
Donald Wilson Wrote:David mentions the "organisers" of the East of Scotland.
Well, it's a fortunate congress that has an organising team with three or more members - most chess players, most members of chess clubs, want no involvement in organising events: they just want to turn up and play.
The East of Scotland (and also the Grangemouth Congress) had an organising team of two: there was Jim Watson, and there was me. Our roles were different at the two events - for the Grangemouth Congress, Jim did most of the preparatory work (booking the venue, dealing with the sponsors, getting the entry form printed, receiving entries etc) and I dealt with the playing side (equipment, arbiters, pairing cards, and so on); for the East of Scotland, Jim booked the venue and received entries, I did the rest.
Last summer, Jim moved back to Yorkshire (his original home). About the same time, I gave up playing chess, and I am no longer a member of Grangemouth Chess Club - a thirty-mile round trip to Grangemouth on club nights makes little sense with the cost of fuel and an income far smaller than it used to be.
I'm not prepared to be the sole organiser of a tournament, though perhaps I might have given the East one more go if the number of players in the Championship last year had been reasonably high. But entries of 9 in 2009, 15 in 2010 and 11 in 2011 indicated pretty clearly that the EoS Championship as a distinct event simply wasn't attractive enough, and there was nothing I could do to make it more attractive. So I made it known to Chess Scotland's Home Director (in a sense the ultimate "owner" of the East of Scotland Championship) that I did not want to continue running the event. The organisers of the Edinburgh Congress were willing to incorporate it in their Open event (for this year, at least) and we'll just have to see how that works out.
The many players who have taken part in the Major and Minor tournaments at the EoS in recent years are, of course, not at fault - they have actually subsidised the EoS Championship to some extent, and without them I would have given up the EoS years ago. I am sorry that the Major and Minor players have lost an event that they enjoyed, and maybe there is an opportunity here for somebody else to run an event about the end of May for these players. But I also need to point out that the venue we used in Grangemouth was available free of charge because the tournament was being run by Grangemouth Chess Club - it would not be free for anyone else, and there have been hints that even the Chess Club would in future have to pay for such lets, simply because of the financial constraints that all local authorities in Scotland now operate under.
Very sad to see this event drop. Things are really grim I guess but I fully see Donald's point. Shame noone will take on organisation.
I would like ot thanks Donald for running. I imagine of 2000+ players I have probably played this one more than most in past 10 years. No idea why it doesn't get more support. Certainly last few years it has become untenable.
Re: East of Scotland – No longer a standalone tournie? - Gary McPheator - 11-02-2012
I think the incorporation of both the EOS and WOS into the Edinburgh and Prestwick Congresses respectively is a good move, even if it is lamentable that there isn't sufficient numbers anymore for stand alone tournaments. I believe the stronger fields that national congresses offer as opposed to regional congresses will actually increase participation by each of the regions top players.
Re: East of Scotland – No longer a standalone tournie? - Graham Kerr - 12-02-2012
I entered the EoS for the first time last year and found it thoroughly enjoyable. I've always found the Grangemouth venue comfortable, and would have entered again this year.
However, i am not entering the Edinburgh congress, so had no notification until i received the email invite from Dick Heathwood to play there.
I've always appreciated the efforts of Jim, Donald and others at weekend events, and it's clear those efforts will be missed when they're not there.
Re: East of Scotland – No longer a standalone tournie? - David G Congalton - 12-02-2012
Perhaps the historians among us can provide information that will help potential organisers of the West and East on a way to bring back one or both as stand alone events. When were these events at their peak, with regard to number of entries and calibre of entrants? What was the format when the events were at their most popular?
Potential entrants can help by giving their thoughts and views on the format. Would I be right in thinking that both were two day events with a maximum of 3 hours per game? Did the time control or the number of rounds put some off?
Of course it could be that these events, as stand alone tournaments, have sadly had their day. My personal opinion is that the calendar is fairly well filled, with the return of Perth and the two new events added last year and that there isn't much room for the addittion of extra events, without having a detrimental impact on events already on the calendar. With the exception of chilly, chilly, Scottish freezing December, there is at least one weekend congress a month from August through to May, with the Scottish in July. Would two congresses a month be sustainable, bearing in mind the numbers who play weekenders or would both siffer from players choosing one or another, depending on the players budgets.
Donald and Jim have been great servants to Scottish chess. I hope Donald continues to have the enthusiasm and love for the game and is involved for many years to come. I have the highest regard and respect for him, as I have for the others who organise, arbiter and run chess and chess events in Scotland. This is all well and good but perhaps what they would really like is a helping hand and volunteers to spread the load.
Re: East of Scotland – No longer a standalone tournie? - Ken_Stewart - 12-02-2012
A few comments on the West, which may be expanded in due course.
The West of Scotland Championship was begun in 1872 under the auspices of the Glasgow Chess Club which provided the trophy and organised the event for over 100 years until it passed on the task to the Scottish Chess Association some time around 1980 (given time I may be able to be more precise). Over most of this period the event was held at the club over an extended period of weekday evenings. In my experience this was usually in the form of seeded preliminary sections and a final all-play-all. In the 1970s the club arranged the event over a weekend; this was then a small Swiss (say 10-12 players) for players who had qualified from other events (eg as county champions) and there were no additional events.
This put a financial strain on the club (which ultimately became inactive in 1992) and the SCA took over the event, increasing the number of sections as an aid to financial viability. For most of the following years it took place at Clarkston Hall, organised for quite a period by Walter Munn. When he retired I took over responsibility (as SCA Director of Tournaments); I usually then did the preliminary organisation and Alistair Maxwell ran the event ‘on the days’.
Eventually I no longer had responsibility and the Clarkston Halls became unavailable. The event was then usually arranged on an ad hoc basis with changes from year to year, which brings us close to the present.
Re: East of Scotland – No longer a standalone tournie? - David Deary - 13-02-2012
George Neave Wrote:OK finally felt I had to register despite the daft "must use your real name" rule.
Hugh - I agree. Quite simply beggars belief that anyone would go to trouble of setting up an event in country with so few active players then specifically exclude any group of players. Fact that it is most capable players on this just makes it seem all the more bizarre. Fact that this comes from same people who run national body is extremely depressing. It is little wonder the players putting most effort into their chess now play much or their chess abroad. Very sad in my opinion.
For once I agree with George! On the daft use your real name rule ;P
However, I think the facts of the event speak for themselves:
2011 there were 72 players.
2012 there were 82 players (I think!).
The Open had 8 players last year and that is simply untenable. I'm pleased the organisers took the view they did so there was an event at the weekend. Anyways, George it looks like you'll be able to play in it next year.
Re: East of Scotland – No longer a standalone tournie? - David Deary - 13-02-2012
David G Congalton Wrote:Donald and Jim have been great servants to Scottish chess. I hope Donald continues to have the enthusiasm and love for the game and is involved for many years to come. I have the highest regard and respect for him, as I have for the others who organise, arbiter and run chess and chess events in Scotland. This is all well and good but perhaps what they would really like is a helping hand and volunteers to spread the load.
Agreed. Donald and Jim have done a great deal for Scottish chess.
On your point of more volunteers being required:
I never noticed any communication to this effect. If it was simply a case of extra resource then I would have expected to have seen an email or a news post on the website asking for volunteers. Although there hasn't been anything prior to this thread. You could argue that it doesn't need to be said but one of our biggest problems in chess in Scotland is communicating effectively.
Re: East of Scotland – No longer a standalone tournie? - George Neave - 13-02-2012
David Deary Wrote:George Neave Wrote:OK finally felt I had to register despite the daft "must use your real name" rule.
Hugh - I agree. Quite simply beggars belief that anyone would go to trouble of setting up an event in country with so few active players then specifically exclude any group of players. Fact that it is most capable players on this just makes it seem all the more bizarre. Fact that this comes from same people who run national body is extremely depressing. It is little wonder the players putting most effort into their chess now play much or their chess abroad. Very sad in my opinion.
For once I agree with George! On the daft use your real name rule ;P
However, I think the facts of the event speak for themselves:
2011 there were 72 players.
2012 there were 82 players (I think!).
The Open had 8 players last year and that is simply untenable. I'm pleased the organisers took the view they did so there was an event at the weekend. Anyways, George it looks like you'll be able to play in it next year.
Cheeky! Ironically I did receive an e-mail invite to this event but, of course, was not really invited at all and so spent my weekend working on more constructive ways to salvage my rating
In fact I would have been delighted to play some chess this past weekend but clearly not welcome here.As result I can assure you I will not be playing this event again irrespective of rating.
Re: East of Scotland – No longer a standalone tournie? - David G Congalton - 14-02-2012
Thanks Ken for the information on the West of Scotland Championships.
I can’t just sit back and accept that a Championship that dates back to 1872 can’t be one of the most prestigious Scottish chess titles to win, second only to the Scottish Championship itself and of equal standing with it’s East Coast counterpart.
I’d like to have a go at reviving both the West and East of Scotland Championships , breathing some life into them, creating an excitement and interest to play in them and an enthusiasm to be involved with them.
I have an initial outline of formats for both and some initial thoughts on a plan, which would provide stability for the events, take both events through to the 2019-20 season, encourage players to enter weekend congresses who wished to be part of the overall strategy, benefit players who take part and ultimately achieve an overall objective of providing worthy champions of the West and of the East.
Among the subsidiary objectives I would set for both would be to see participants from every county across the country take part and where possible to have every county champion take part, at some stage.
I am willing to commit to the organisation of both events for the next eight years, commencing with 2012-13, if I have the approval of Chess Scotland (as both tournaments are under their jurisdiction).
The format for both Championships would be the same and the major part of the plan would be to hold a finals weekend, which would have supporting tournaments like a normal weekend congress, with an added incentive of a qualification place for the latter stages of the following year’s Championship.
The finals would either be head-to-head between two finalists who would resolve the destination of the title over a number of games, which would be my preferred option, all-play-all featuring four qualifiers, or a swiss event among a small group of around sixteen. The latter is not my preferred option but is an alternative if cutting the numbers to two or four proved difficult because of calendar congestion.
I envisage three sections and three Championship finals. An open section, for which the current trophies would be awarded and two grading limited sections, for which trophies would also be awarded.
Looking at the Chess Scotland calendar, I am thinking that the “first” finals could take place in May, or September 2013, depending on a few things, such as whether Grangemouth takes place or not, will Glasgow take place in May or November (I don’t know when it has traditionally taken place), if Prestwick is replaced by the West finals weekend or they could be scheduled for early in June, if it didn’t impinge on any other planned events.
In order to give an example of how my preferred two finalists would be arrived at, I’ll set the finals for the weekend of the 31st May to the 2nd of June 2013. The process of qualifying for the finals would start on the 1st June 2012, although whether the top players of the 2011 or the 2012 weekend congress qualify (see below) may subject to the timing of a round of matches, where the qualifiers are cut to those who will battle it out at the finals.
From the Scottish Championship 2012, the top player for a west coast club would qualify for the West Championship and the top from an East Coast club would go into the East Championships.
Other qualifiers would come from weekend congresses who wished to be part of the qualification process (I’m partial to a place in each event being up for grabs at each congress, irrespective of where the weekend congress takes place, perhaps encouraging more West Coast residents to take part in East Coast events and East Coast residents to play on the right side of the country).
There would also be a place for the top players, of any CS organised individual events, such as the MacIsaac or Nancy Elder.
There would also be places for a number of current county champions, with play-offs to decide which county champions take the places.
The idea is, by a combination of the above, to arrive at 16 players per event, who would be invited to take part in a knock-out tournament to decide the two finalists. This part of the process could be three rounds of one match, over a weekend at one venue, although there are alternatives which may be more cost-effective.
I’d like to see high quality games, with players having a chance to prepare for opponents and an incremental time control, in use where possible.
With regard to venues for the knock-out rounds and the finals weekend I’m in favour of holding them in a different city/town each year. On the West Coast there’s Glasgow obviously, several venues in Ayrshire, Dumfries, Stranraer, Oban, Fort William, Ullapool, Portree and Stornoway. On the East, Hawick, North Berwick, Edinburgh, Dundee, Aberdeen, Inverness, St Andrews and John O Groats (why not?).
As for the rewards, the winner would take all. On top of the title, the prestige and the
Trophy, there would be a financial incentive that would tempt every player in Scotland to seriously consider being part of their Championships.
Okay, so there’s still an awful lot of meat to be put on the bones and logistical nightmares to negotiate but I’m confident that I can set up something special for both the West of Scotland and East of Scotland Championships and would welcome any comments, questions, feedback, criticism, suggestions and input.