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+--- Thread: AGM (/thread-1038.html)
Re: AGM - Phil Thomas - 20-08-2014
robin moore Wrote:The "Greenwood mafia" views at the moment appear to be...
option 1-Godfather David
option 2-Godfather Robin
option 3-Godfather Pat
Re: AGM
Postby robin moore » Tue Aug 19, 2014 5:02 pm
To reaffirm what Andy Howie presented earlier, there are three options for this motion:
1. They agree with the guidelines and will enforce for Chess Scotland events
2. They agree with the guidelines and will recommend for Chess Scotland events
3. They reject the guidelines completely with respect to Chess Scotland Event
As the motion is presently worded, voting for option 2 doesn't appear to be an option at all.
robin moore
Garry Kasparov
Posts: 719
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 9:59 am
Robin,
Why and when the change of mind?
Re: AGM - Andy Howie - 20-08-2014
Steve has given me an amendment to change the language slightly. I think it is fair to say we are angling for option 2 and the AGM to endorse the recommendation. FTP is down at the moment. I will publish the amended motion as soon as I can get it going. Basically where it says shall, it now says should!
Re: AGM - Ianbrownlee - 20-08-2014
Andy Howie Wrote:Steve has given me an amendment to change the language slightly. I think it is fair to say we are angling for option 2 and the AGM to endorse the recommendation. FTP is down at the moment. I will publish the amended motion as soon as I can get it going. Basically where it says shall, it now says should!
thanks Andy/Stevie
you'll get my support on that
Re: AGM - John Dempsey - 21-08-2014
I SOOOO miss what you guys are about! I wish I could be at that AGM on Saturday! But, as most of you know I live in the Caribbean now. At least half the cost is accommodation if you wanted to come here. So, Gail (my wife) and I would like to extend an invitation. If you are a CS member, and you can get here, we will give you free accommodation (1 or two people in the room)! We rent out this room on airbnb and have had guests from all over the world. Just contact me BEFORE you book your flights and I can confirm availability.
The link is : <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="https://www.airbnb.com/rooms/375927?s=IcJR">https://www.airbnb.com/rooms/375927?s=IcJR</a><!-- m -->
Good Luck on Saturday!
John
Re: AGM - Phil Thomas - 21-08-2014
Andy Howie Wrote:Steve has given me an amendment to change the language slightly. I think it is fair to say we are angling for option 2 and the AGM to endorse the recommendation. FTP is down at the moment. I will publish the amended motion as soon as I can get it going. Basically where it says shall, it now says should!
My suggestion for amended motion for CS controlled events follows.
Noting that
(1) For FIDE rated events I see no option but to retain their wording verbatim.
(2) For independent events the best option seems to be to recommend the version in force for CS events.
(3) The FIDE words are too wordy and frequently inappropriate for example why would CS tell CS organisers
" It is recommended that each national chess federation appoints an officer for matters regarding disabilities and communicate the contact details to FIDE".
Suggested wording to apply to CS controlled events
CS GUIDELINES – Proposed for CS organised events.
1 These guidelines shall be used for all tournaments run by Chess Scotland
2. No one has the right to refuse to meet either a disabled player against whom he has been correctly paired nor an able bodied player against whom he has been correctly paired
3 All chess venues should ideally be accessible to all. Failing that an acceptable alternative venue with full supervision for those who cannot access the nominated venue would be acceptable.
4 The entry form and website listing(s) should ask whether any potential competitor has an impairment that will require special circumstances. The competitor should inform the organisers about any special circumstances as soon as possible before the start of the event. The less advance notice given to the organiser, the less the competitor can expect cooperation.
5. No disabled player shall be penalised in accordance with the Laws of Chess because of disability.
6. Arbiters shall be particularly aware of those articles in the Laws which impinge on disabled players. These include 4.9, 6.2e, 6.5, 8.1e, 8.4, 11.3b, 12.2f, Appendix D.
7. Any disabled competitor, who reasonably requests in time the placing of their equipment in a particular seat or orientation, has the right to do so - provided that this does not disadvantage his opponent or other competitors. The event organiser must ensure the needs of both players are catered for.
8. In any events solely for disabled players there should be a tournament physician, if possible
The tournament director and the chief arbiter shall address sympathetically any requirements (preferably stated well in advance) for assistance with
• Accessing refreshments
• Pressing the clock
• Size of print on official notices.
• Size of scoresheets
• Any other assistance required by the disabled player.
Frequently these requirements will be addressed by the disabled player supplying his own assistant.
However, if the opponent is acting as an assistant the arbiter may decide to give him extra thinking time.
9. After making the pairings the Arbiter shall decide manually on which board each player shall play: Visually impaired players should always play at the same board as unless they request otherwise. Players in wheelchairs require a larger space but not necessarily 3 m wide aisles throughout the venue as implicated in the FIDE guidelines.
10 Assistants should
• Have at least a minimum knowledge of chess.
• Know the name of the pieces in the disabled player’s language.
• Inform the player when they are leaving the chess board temporarily.
• . Where necessary record the moves: This can be a useful tool for the arbiter.
11 Time Trouble
In a a time trouble situation featuring a visually disabled players the arbiter should bear in mind that the opponent, if not disabled, can reply almost immediately.
The competition rules should state: If a visually disabled player has less than five minutes left at any stage of a time control, then he does not have to keep score, even when there is an increment of 30 seconds or more. After the time trouble, he must then update his scoresheet.
Re: AGM - Keith Ruxton - 21-08-2014
Hi Phil,
Great work, thanks for doing that.
In my opinion this is far clearer and better written that the FIDE 'guidelines' and perhaps will keep everyone happy?
This version has my vote (not that I'm going to vote, obviously, but you get the idea...)
Cheers,
Keith
Re: AGM - ronniewallace - 21-08-2014
Phil Thomas Wrote:7. Any disabled competitor, who reasonably requests in time the placing of their equipment in a particular seat or orientation, has the right to do so - provided that this does not disadvantage his opponent or other competitors. The event organiser must ensure the needs of both players are catered for.Hi Phil,
I find the way you have written the above a bit tricky to interpret; if my reading of what you are trying to state is correct I think the wording below makes it clearer. I've not though read through the 25 pages of this thread!
Every effort should be made to accomodate a timely request from a disabled player with regards the placing of their equipment in a particular seat or orientation - provided that this does not disadvantage his opponent or other competitors. The event organiser must ensure the needs of both players are catered for.
Re: AGM - Jim Johnston - 21-08-2014
Phil,
Nice... I would suggest the first "acceptable" in 3 is superfluous and it scans correctly without it, and in 2, it should be "or", not "nor". Good work!
Cheers
Jim
Re: AGM - Phil Thomas - 21-08-2014
Interesting feedback guys.
Bound to be improvements available since I only had around an hour and a half available to get it written.
Fully agree with Ronnie's rewording suggestion - much better phrasing than FIDE's large committee.
JIm found a grammatical error in a sentence I wrote .... oops
Looking the whole of it tonight I would totally strike out paragraph 6
Arbiters shall be particularly aware of those articles in the Laws which impinge on disabled players. These include 4.9, 6.2e, 6.5, 8.1e, 8.4, 11.3b, 12.2f, Appendix D.
Because
(a) These requirements are essentially already covered in the document.
apart from the start of Appendix D which dictates that the second set used by a visually impaired opponent should be at least 20cm by 20cm. Hard to imagine an arbiter punishing a such a player for having a set that is too small - or have I missed something here.
(b) This should be a stand alone document - to encourage its use.
© Those paragraph numbers apply only to the version of the Laws of Chess introduced in July 2014; paragraph numbering changed from the 2010 version and no doubt will change again in 2018.
If anyone wants to take this rapidly improving document and propose it at the agm ..........don't worry about copyright - I didn't.
Re: AGM - Douglas Bryson - 21-08-2014
Not connected directly or prompted by any previous motion or discussion I intend to propose under AOCB that "The Richardson and Spens Cups should be FIDE rated."
There is much previous debate on this board on this topic and it concluded with the thought that FIDE licensed arbiters had to be physically present at each match to allow the event to be rated. That regulation was not one with which CS could comply - ie lack of relevant arbiters necessary for multiple locations often on same day.
FIDE regulations on this point are badly drafted and although the presence of an arbiter is implied another interpretation is also possible. We have been continuing a correspondence with a FIDE official who insists that for a rating only non-title tournament (ie just like Rich/Spens) the only requirement is that the person mentioned on the registration is a licensed arbiter. Captains cannot act as arbiters but can indicate rules to players and advise them to comply.
“The arbiter named at the point of registration is responsible for ensuring that results are submitted to the national Rating Officer. They must be on the list of paid-up Licensed Arbiters.”
We have licensed arbiters who are willing to put their name forward as the registered official.
So on that basis I think Rich/Spens can be rated. The motion will give members a chance to give their view on whether they want these events FIDE rated.
If the AGM vote is yes and subsequent FIDE regulations specify arbiter must be present then at least we will have a recorded vote indicating member preference on the issue.
The reason why this idea of proposing a vote on FIDE rating Rich/Spens is delayed until now is because this issue of arbiters physically present was meant to be thrashed out at the relevant meeting in Tromso but it was never discussed such was the reported chaotic nature of the FIDE congress.
Douglas Bryson (CS rating)