+- Forums (https://www.chessscotland.com/forum)
+-- Forum: Members Only (https://www.chessscotland.com/forum/forum-16.html)
+--- Forum: General Chess Chat (https://www.chessscotland.com/forum/forum-3.html)
+--- Thread: AGM (/thread-1038.html)
Re: AGM - robin moore - 10-08-2014
Steve,
Thank you for your reply.
On your response to point 4/ " That would be a matter for CS to decide".
Are you saying that if this motion was passed, the decision on where to hold the Ayrshire Chess Championship, or any Scottish county championship I guess, would be taken out of the hands of the local county association?
If so, which CS executives are going to decide the venue?
Re: AGM - Andy Howie - 10-08-2014
Alan Jelfs Wrote:Andy Howie Wrote:Are we honestly debating against the rights of Disabled players here????We are debating the motion, Andy.
I am also puzzled about point 9. - the medical requirements.
Aren't disability and illness being confused here?
This is more Steves territory than mine so I will defer to him on that.
Robin consider this. Someone who is in a wheelchair wants to play. Are you saying they can't? We have to be careful as the organisers will fall foul of current discrimination laws never mind FIDE edicts
Re: AGM - Adam Bremner - 10-08-2014
robin moore Wrote:Or for that matter, CS organised coaching sessions for the Glorney, a top CS event, which were held recently at...Edinburgh Chess Club?
Presumably as these are closed invitational events it is OK? You will know 100% what requirements the venue would need to have, and in the case of no disabled entrants, Alva Street and such venues are OK.
Re: AGM - Patrick McGovern - 10-08-2014
In my experience, organisers of tournaments do go to extremes to meet the needs of all players. I cannot help but feel that if the FIDE guidelines were implemented fully then organisers could find it very difficult to meet the needs of all players. I note the guidelines are that only, guidelines and not absolute rules. I hope that common sense will rule the day and status quo will continue. I fear if these guidelines were fully adopted then tournaments could struggle to meet all the needs detailed in the guidelines. Players could enter tournaments and find their entry refused because their needs could not be fully met. This would not be desirable, indeed it could be discriminatory but would you cancel a tournament because you have to accept a disabled player and drastically reduce your total entries or employ staff (or enlist more volunteers) to " If a competitor cannot access the refreshments, arrangements should be made for their needs to be met. " or provide "assistants"
The present system seems to work ok, i have grave doubts if the proposed system would work at all.
Re: AGM - robin moore - 10-08-2014
Andy,
Surprised you are trying to deflect and avoid responsibility from this motion as you are the seconder.
Let's pick a location for a congress that we both know well - the Mercure hotel at Ayr. This is how it works at the moment...
The organiser asks for support from enthusiastic helper outers at the weekend for able bodied persons and players with disabilities.
Disabled player 1- He has a nice spacious area near the window with his helper and guide dog. The helper outer makes sure this player is escorted to and back from the gents toilet.
Disabled player 2- He flies up from London to compete. He needs a delta frame to walk, his speech is poor and he needs help to record his moves and press his clock. Enter the helper outer who explains the position to his compassionate opponent, takes the player to his room, escorts the player to the local bank to use his bank card, escorts him back to his room at the hotel.
Disabled player 3- His sight is ropey, dedicate a nice area at the venue where he is near the toilet, spacious, near a light fitting for a light above his board and he has help of any description if required.
I wish we had more disabled players competing as we are delighted to welcome and support them.
You want to change that and enforce CS rules?
Re: AGM - StevieHilton - 11-08-2014
Andy Howie Wrote:Alan Jelfs Wrote:Andy Howie Wrote:Are we honestly debating against the rights of Disabled players here????We are debating the motion, Andy.
I am also puzzled about point 9. - the medical requirements.
Aren't disability and illness being confused here?
This is more Steves territory than mine so I will defer to him on that.
Robin consider this. Someone who is in a wheelchair wants to play. Are you saying they can't? We have to be careful as the organisers will fall foul of current discrimination laws never mind FIDE edicts
Robin,
What Andy has said is quite right. It is better to have them laid down in writing after all they are guidelines.
CS has the right to change them to meet local needs. That is for the council of Chess Scotland to decide not me, because I am not a member of council.
Pat,
As you point out, these are guidelines. There was nothing in writing in the past about this issue. Now there is and it is up to council to look at these guideline and how they can be implemented locally. As Andy has pointed out denying a disabled player the right to play in a tournament, Can lead to legal issues under current laws.
Adam;
If A tournament is invitational the organisers can invite who they wish. That is not the point of these guidelines, if there are subsidiary events and these are open then disabled players if they wish to play cannot be denied entry. The onus is on the organisers to provide accessible accomodation
Re: AGM - StevieHilton - 11-08-2014
Alan Jelfs wrote:
Andy Howie wrote:
Are we honestly debating against the rights of Disabled players here????
We are debating the motion, Andy.
I am also puzzled about point 9. - the medical requirements.
Aren't disability and illness being confused here?
Alan, this makes good sense for the organiser's to have at the very least the name and numbers of local doctors or hospital if need. This happened to me in 2005 at a tournament in Ayr and I ended up in Ayr hospital before being sent home to Greenock People can fall ill because of their disability. It makes sense for both to be put together.
Re: AGM - Andy Howie - 11-08-2014
robin moore Wrote:Andy,
Surprised you are trying to deflect and avoid responsibility from this motion as you are the seconder.
Not at all Steve is the Gen Sec of the FIDE Commission on the Disabled. His words carry far more weight than mine in this.
Re: AGM - Andy Howie - 11-08-2014
Adam Bremner Wrote:robin moore Wrote:Or for that matter, CS organised coaching sessions for the Glorney, a top CS event, which were held recently at...Edinburgh Chess Club?
Presumably as these are closed invitational events it is OK? You will know 100% what requirements the venue would need to have, and in the case of no disabled entrants, Alva Street and such venues are OK.
That is certainly my understanding of the guidelines.
Re: AGM - Phil Thomas - 11-08-2014
Steve,
going back to your overnight post (1.24 a.m.) and picking up on a single point
You wrote
CS has the right to change them to meet local needs. That is for the council of Chess Scotland to decide not me, because I am not a member of council.
Surely not so. This is for the agm to decide because this is a motion going to the agm.
Which to me makes perfect sense. Why take it to council where only a vanishingly small percentage of CS members are allowed to speak and express their views.