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+--- Thread: Chess Scotland Constitution (/thread-1473.html)
Re: Chess Scotland Constitution - amuir - 13-05-2016
Until online voting comes in I suggest meeting on 21st May makes some decisions by a show of hands:
1. (a) current proxy system (b) impose a cap of 2-3 proxys per attendee.
2. (a) current 1 year term for directors (b) 3 year term
This will decide system in place for August AGM and to sign off the constitution.
Re: Chess Scotland Constitution - Ianbrownlee - 13-05-2016
unfortunately proxy votes are a necessity due the large area covered by Chess Scotland. At the risk of chicken and the egg scenario , we need online voting in place and passed before it can be used, At the moment proxy votes are sent to the executive director and registered before the AGM. I havent heard any issue with this therefore the online voting issue isnt as important as the issue or the right of the person (proxee/delegate) carrying the proxy. What needs to be decided is whether the delegate represents the specific requests of the voter on specific agenda items by voting accordingly, or whether the delegate should also carry the voting of any items which may require voting on at the AGM. My understanding is that it is the latter which is the case, therefore there is no point going on about online voting although I personally would like to see introduced in a bid to engage more members.
If a member gives his vote to a delegate then he is trusting his delegate to vote accordingly. I have never seen a delegate to act inappropriately and the delegate wouldnt be allowed to anyway.
The basic question is whether a delegate be restricted to vote on agenda items alone assuming the voter has already instructed how to vote. In my opinion the voter , by giving his proxy to the delegate has indicated his level of trust to the delegate. The potential issue is that in the past that solicitation of votes has taken place. However that is the name of the game in politics and if its good enough for our democracy its good enough for Chess Scotland
Re: Chess Scotland Constitution - Jim Webster - 13-05-2016
Quote:e.g. someone in say the Dundee or the Aberdeen league advertises on the local noticeboard “to save you travelling to Glasgow, give me your vote” – before you know it you might have 30 or 40 votes “to represent the league”.Proxies are not the allocation of a free vote, but an authority to vote on specific motions (or candidates) as directed by whoever is delegating their vote. Proxy holders do not have the ability to use these votes as they see fit.
Quote:Then an issue comes up which you feel strongly about – perhaps to get a one-upmanship on someone or to settle a previous score. Your 40 votes swamp someone else with one vote.This cannot happen - proxy votes are not permitted to be used on any issue that is not a formal, and previously published, motion or resolution contained within the agenda of the general meeting.
All Proxy votes must be registered with Chess Scotland's Executive Director 7 days before any general meeting. This allows all registered proxy votes to be verified: -
a) against the membership database to ensure only members are voting.
b) to ensure the votes are correctly formatted against the agenda motions.
No unregistered proxy votes are permitted.
Re: Chess Scotland Constitution - George Neave - 13-05-2016
StevieHilton Wrote:George,
What is your solution about proxy votes?
we have heard nothing from you on this.
Personally I'd support onlne but, since you ask, I see no need for "a solution" because the current situation does not need fixing. Not one person who complained their their proxy has been misused. The only people complaining are the people who lost out in a vote.
Re: Chess Scotland Constitution - John Watkins - 13-05-2016
So proxy votes are operating as they should be and in line with best practice. Move on.
Re: Chess Scotland Constitution - StevieHilton - 13-05-2016
George Neave Wrote:StevieHilton Wrote:George,le
What is your solution about proxy votes?
we have heard nothing from you on this.
Personally I'd support onlne but, since you ask, I see no need for "a solution" because the current situation does not need fixing. Not one person who complained their their proxy has been misused. The only people complaining are the people who lost out in a vote.
George,
I would have some sympathy with the idea of online voting, but it would have to be totally transparent. When I stood for the Presidency in 2013, two officials held 50% of the proxy votes cast. There were no clear instructions available as to how those votes were to be used. This scenario has be avoided in the future.
"All Proxy votes must be registered with Chess Scotland's Executive Director 7 days before any general meeting. This allows all registered proxy votes to be verified: -
a) against the membership database to ensure only members are voting.
b) to ensure the votes are correctly formatted against the agenda motions."
Jim,
Would this information from the proxy votes and their instructions on how the vote is to be used, be made available to candidates in a contested election? This would help to make things more transparent.
Re: Chess Scotland Constitution - amuir - 14-05-2016
John Watkins Wrote:So proxy votes are operating as they should be and in line with best practice. Move on.
John & George , you are very naive. Proxy votes are block votes. The powerful people take them to maintain their position of power. The people who give their votes will get local benefits. The giving of these block votes are in secret. This is how local councils work in Scotland too.
Dick Heathwood had 87 block votes = chair of standards committee
Andy Howie had 11 block votes = CS secretary & FIDE delegate
Michael Hanley regularly had 50 block votes = Scottish junior chess supremo
All these guys want positions at the top. It is not your average Joe Bloggs with the block votes.
Both Stephen Hilton and I have been the victims of personal bullying at AGMs.
Can the vote on block votes & length of directors tenure be the 1st items on the agenda on saturday please. I might be able to come along at the start but my family are watching 39 steps at the Theatre Royal at 2.30 pm at which I have agreed to go.
Re: Chess Scotland Constitution - Ianbrownlee - 14-05-2016
amuir Wrote:Both Stephen Hilton and I have been the victims of personal bullying at AGMs.
if you or stevie were bullied then that is illiegal and should be a police matter - but I suspect bullying is the wrong term, more likely you were both victims of a solicitation campaign for votes
I had a load of proxy votes against me when I ran for President , so what its part of the process and I suspect the better candidate prevailed.
Yes Proxy voting is unfortunate for some but still necessary. Maybe the secret aspect of it is wrong but it will take a better man than me to argue its pros and cons
John Watkins Wrote:So proxy votes are operating as they should be and in line with best practice. Move on.absolutley John lets move on
Re: Chess Scotland Constitution - John Watkins - 14-05-2016
amuir Wrote:John & George , you are very naive. Proxy votes are block votes. The powerful people take them to maintain their position of power. The people who give their votes will get local benefits. The giving of these block votes are in secret. This is how local councils work in Scotland too.
Totally at odds with Jim Webster's post above on how proxy votes work in practice. Naive my ****.
Re: Chess Scotland Constitution - John Watkins - 14-05-2016
The draft constitution states the following:
5. Voting
5.1. The following are each entitled to one vote at a general meeting, subject to the additional
regulations contained in 5.2 to 5.7
(i) Every Individual Member;
(ii) Every named eligible individual within a Family Membership
(iii) A single nominated representative of each member Club and Affiliate organisation.
5.2. Each member Club and Affiliate member may nominate a single representative to the Executive
Director at least 7 days before the general meeting.
5.3. Member voting rights, for all meetings, are not extended to:
(i) Members whose membership fee is in arrears by more than 1 month at the date of the
meeting.
(ii) Members who have joined within 2 weeks prior to the meeting date.
5.4. At COUNCIL, Board or Committee meetings, voting is restricted to members of COUNCIL or the
relevant Board or Committee and each member shall have only one vote unless under
circumstances defined within the appropriate operating procedures.
5.5. Votes may be cast in the following ways:
(i) by personal attendance at the meeting;
(ii) by on-line submission via a system established on the Chess Scotland website;
(iii) by proxy vote via a representative entitled to vote and in attendance at the meeting,
notified to the Executive Director at least 7 days beforehand.
5.6. Proxy votes are only valid in respect of specific motions or nominations, and may not be used
for purposes other than those for which the proxy is granted. Proxy votes may be transferred to
support a minor amendment agreed by the original proposer (or nominated deputy).
5.7. In the event of an equality of votes the chairman will have a casting vote, in addition to his
personal deliberative vote, to resolve the tie.
As someone who advises companies, charities and associations on their constitutions in their day job, the above ticks all the proper boxes from a democracy point of view. Move on.