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+--- Thread: Olympiad Goals (/thread-1544.html)
Re: Olympiad Goals - Phil Thomas - 15-09-2016
Jonathan,
Pedant warning everyone
Looking at their accounts on line for season 2014-15 Man City don't actually need a crowd.
Match day income £ 43 Million
TV income £135 Million
WAge Bill £194 Million
Operating Profit £10 Million
So if attendance was free they would have had to reduce their wage bill to £161 Million to break even.
Its a different world out there. :-\
Re: Olympiad Goals - Matthew Turner - 15-09-2016
It seems to me that selection criteria such as a certain numbers of games in the previous period of time are not really necessary. If there is a selection panel then their job is to use their judgment. No sensible selector would ignore a factor such as how active a candidate player had been. I think most selectors would consider a players age as well and how their selection might impact on the team at future events. This can be very tricky. I would love to select younger, more active players for the Olympiad team, but actually I think if you look at the data it is very very difficult to justify this.
Re: Olympiad Goals - Matthew Turner - 15-09-2016
Phil Thomas Wrote:Jonathan,
Pedant warning everyone
Looking at their accounts on line for season 2014-15 Man City don't actually need a crowd.
Match day income £ 43 Million
TV income £135 Million
WAge Bill £194 Million
Operating Profit £10 Million
So if attendance was free they would have had to reduce their wage bill to £161 Million to break even.
Its a different world out there. :-\
I actually think that there is a serious point here. I am not sure Chess Scotland is a different World, but rather a different scale. Ultimately, we shouldn't be too worried about raising £20 or £25 from members, we want to be pulling in the £2k or even £20k. We need an embryo of a development programme in place and some ambitious plans. Then we need to tap up individuals in the finance sector in Edinburgh or Glasgow.
I firmly believe funding going forward will be about rich individual donors, not mass memberships or companies. Of course large memberships are beneficial for other reasons.
Re: Olympiad Goals - Andy Howie - 15-09-2016
Recovering today from the journey back...
Checking through my bundle of minutes from the commission meetings, my eyes were drawn to the facts and figures from the Development Commission. I don't have them to hand at the moment so I am doing this from memory.
Europe has 75% of the Active FIDE players in the world and 77% of the tournaments.
Scotland is a Category 2 country in the table of countries, there are 5 Categories. Worldwide we are ranked about 77th (it was between 75 and 80 from memory). We have a relatively low number of active FIDE rated players and tournaments. I have requested the full European figures but in comparison with the rest of Europe, we are down at the bottom (I will publish the results when I have them).
Looking at the Gaprindashvili cup (Combined scores of Open + Womens Tournament) we finished 73rd, above our WW seeding.
With most of our GMs and IMs being the "Older Generation" we are going to slide down the rankings as they stop playing.
Where are the titled players coming through at the moment???
They are there, they just don't get the chances in Scotland to get norms. We have a single norm tournament every year, the Scottish Championship and depending on the numbers, it takes one bad result to kill your chances of a norm.
The reality is we need norm tournaments in Scotland to bring these players through. Alan and Andy B should not have to go to tournaments abroad to try to get their IM titles. We should have tournaments here that they can play in along with Calum, Clement, Murad etc etc etc.
The simplest way to do this is to have a RR tournament with the correct composition to provide opportunity for norms. FIDE have made this hellishly expensive, however there is an idea going though at the moment that I am hoping to get involved with testing that will reduce the costs significantly. All going well we will approve at the GA next year (when they work out where is it going to be!)
Get the basics right, have a tournament structure to bring the players through and you then have the basis to improve our Olympiad performance as you have a greater pool of players to choose from.
As for this years Olympiad. I am satisfied with our performance. The players gave their all and have performed to our WW seeding. Some excellent performances in the mix and Andrew Greet was very unlucky not to come away with a GM norm. Andy B has some excellent ideas for the future and now has an Olympiad under his belt. I am looking forward to seeing his recommendations for the future
Re: Olympiad Goals - Alan Tate - 15-09-2016
Matthew Turner Wrote:It seems to me that selection criteria such as a certain numbers of games in the previous period of time are not really necessary.
Matthew Turner Wrote:I don't really see that bonus related pay (in the context) is really going to work.
Care to expand?
Re: Olympiad Goals - Jim Webster - 15-09-2016
Matthew Turner Wrote:Ultimately, we shouldn't be too worried about raising £20 or £25 from members, we want to be pulling in the £2k or even £20k.I'm not sure that I fully agree with all of the above. There are 2 issues facing Chess Scotland: falling or static membership and the lack of development at international level (junior and adult).
Membership and the £20 or £25 that they bring in is the bread and butter of the organisation as a whole, not just for Olympiad/team development. People who decide to withhold membership because they don't see plans should perhaps look at it from a different perspective. Pay the membership and then, as Peter Smith alluded to in another thread - albeit for junior development, but the message is the same give us your time. Come in and actually help. It is easy to sit in your cosy home with your feet up drinking wine putting forward propositions but Chess Scotland needs support in other ways than purely financial - manpower!
At this years AGM we actually struggled to find members and club representatives to fill all the council places. With enough people on board and willing to help that would then free some of up the effort spent on the basic business of Chess Scotland to do some of the more ambitious tasks. These need to be examined, thought through and methods of implementation sought to the benefit of all.
Matthew Turner Wrote:We need an embryo of a development programme in place and some ambitious plans. Then we need to tap up individuals in the finance sector in Edinburgh or Glasgow.Before we can tap "rich individuals donors" it is necessary to have some thing tangible to offer that they can believe in and to convince them that support of Chess Scotland is worthwhile. Equally "rich individual donors" are not going to provide endless seams of year in - year out finance that is necessary to create and support a long term development plan.
I firmly believe funding going forward will be about rich individual donors, not mass memberships or companies. Of course large memberships are beneficial for other reasons.
We, of the Management Board, are currently looking at the potential development of a Chess Scotland image that can be used to attract finance - individual or company.
Jonathan Livingstone Wrote:I haven't renewed my CS membership and don't intend to under current climate. With the game in Scotland seemingly doomed on so many levels, I need to be convinced there is a plan to deal with that. It is actually the likes of Robin, myself and the other 99% of amateur players that provide much if not all of the CS income for helping players out with their expenses at international events.Since you have not renewed your CS membership, and I don't know when you last were a CS member, how can you claim to be funding anything we at CS are trying to do? In fact by advocating withholding membership are you not actually contributing to the "alleged decline" and impending doom of CS?
Re: Olympiad Goals - robin moore - 15-09-2016
"At this years AGM we actually struggled to find members and club representatives to fill all the council places."
Would that be the council that no one in the ChessScotland directorate seems to know if they meet or not let alone taking minutes Jim?
Re: Olympiad Goals - Jim Webster - 15-09-2016
robin moore Wrote:Would that be the council that no one in the ChessScotland directorate seems to know if they meet or not let alone taking minutes Jim?Oh such sarcasm, I thought long and hard about answering you Robin (1 second roughly)
Yes, the Council Meeting did take place - it seems the minutes have slipped through but we will publish them as soon as we can. I might even do them myself from Machu Picchu next week - the meeting was that long ago.
There was also a Management Board meeting on July 28th and I took the minute notes but still need to write them up - after I come back from vacation in mid October.
Re: Olympiad Goals - Adam Bremner - 15-09-2016
andyburnett Wrote:You have a point Adam, but if you can't play 15 game in 6 months, how are you going to be in condition to play 9 games in 11 days at a high level?
So John didn't play at a high level this Olympiad? Luke McShane can't play at a high level?
Very tongue in cheek; I agree playing is important, but also there just isn't a practical environment in Scotland to allow them to rack up FIDE games against other "good players". 15 games against people much lower is pointless, it is partly about quality over quantity, and not shackling any selectors to a rigid number imho. You also have a tough decision on what the Olympiad is to CS, do we want our best players, or do we want our potentially best players further down the line, or do we want active players? Is it a reward for being the highest rated, or an opportunity to develop players? Is there a separate plan for Euros compared to Olympiads?andyburnett Wrote:I gained my FM title by playing 100 games in 5 monthsfinanced by a combination of my club sponsoring me for 1 tournament, Friends of Chess for another, working a *not very nice* job and saving to pay for 3 or 4 more...
I have huge respect for you doing this, seriously. It is also essentially proof that access to games is hugely important, and disappointing that you had to travel to Eastern Europe to manage this because the environment just isn't there in Scotland. However, it is not a situation that everyone can manage. I'd like to think I have the ability to get FM, but also accepted I am extremely unlikely to due to the combination of a lack of time and money to do similar. There are people better than me/with much more potential in similar spots. It's no coincidence people get stuck around 2100/2200 in Scotland, which is why I think Andy Howie is onto something...
Andy Howie Wrote:Where are the titled players coming through at the moment???
They are there, they just don't get the chances in Scotland to get norms. We have a single norm tournament every year, the Scottish Championship and depending on the numbers, it takes one bad result to kill your chances of a norm.
The reality is we need norm tournaments in Scotland to bring these players through. Alan and Andy B should not have to go to tournaments abroad to try to get their IM titles. We should have tournaments here that they can play in along with Calum, Clement, Murad etc etc etc.
The simplest way to do this is to have a RR tournament with the correct composition to provide opportunity for norms. FIDE have made this hellishly expensive, however there is an idea going though at the moment that I am hoping to get involved with testing that will reduce the costs significantly. All going well we will approve at the GA next year (when they work out where is it going to be!)
Get the basics right, have a tournament structure to bring the players through and you then have the basis to improve our Olympiad performance as you have a greater pool of players to choose from.
Bingo. The Scottish is great, unless you can't make it for whatever reason (i.e. internship, not getting the holidays from work, other commitments). Winter Chess festival was fantastic, although unfortunately just a one off. I don't even think norm tournaments are that important, it is just getting games against other high rated players. Give the opportunity for players to get their ratings up. Is it better for Scotland to have a 2450 untitled player or an FM with norms? That is in no way meant as a dig, I just mean norms aren't something we should be obsessed by, we should be more concerned with being able to add +100/200/300 points on to people's strength and ratings. A possible solution, maybe a closed FIDE league over several weekends?
Re: Olympiad Goals - PeterReidSmith - 15-09-2016
Gee...does the noticeboard ever actually achieve anything positive?
It's rare I look these days (very deliberately), but whenever I do it always seems to be the same negative ("If only I was emperor, I'd show 'em") type posts kicking off a subsequent melee of rebukes and retorts. Seriously, folks, what's the point exactly?!
I assume it is restricted to members at least (....is it?!...) but either way for heavens sake review whether this is adding any value. As I've said in a few posts with more subtle language: we are where we are ; if you don't like it then look in the mirror and offer some concrete assistance.
Our players, (juniors, Olympiad, seniors or other) deserve more support than I typically see on here. Those making decisions are doing a decent job - not perfect, because none of us are (I've made more than my share of gaffs) but for heavens sake...
I do wonder, would we lose anything by just closing this bloody thing.