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+--- Thread: Declining entries (/thread-1683.html)
RE: Declining entries - George Neave - 11-09-2017
(11-09-2017, 03:29 PM)David Clayton Wrote: Just a quick reply to explain why the Inverness Chess Congress restricts entries to U2200.
In order to hold a FIDE rated tournament within a 3 hour playing session, we have to restrict the entries to U2200. It is part of the FIDE Rate of Play Regulations.
We would have to go to 4hr playing sessions to allow above 2200 players to participate, which is impossible to fit in due to the time constraints of the venue.
The other Scottish Chess Tour events do not have this restriction.
I hope this explains why the Inverness Chess Congress operates this restriction.
It would be better to drop the FIDE rating then and open the event to everyone. It's interesting how people get excited about discrimination for all sorts or reasons but being discriminated against for being too good is pretty weird and cannot be a good thing.
RE: Declining entries - JMcNicoll - 11-09-2017
(11-09-2017, 07:39 PM)George Neave Wrote:It's also interesting how people feel able to pontificate about circumstances they know nothing about and throw about words like "discriminated".(11-09-2017, 03:29 PM)David Clayton Wrote: Just a quick reply to explain why the Inverness Chess Congress restricts entries to U2200.
In order to hold a FIDE rated tournament within a 3 hour playing session, we have to restrict the entries to U2200. It is part of the FIDE Rate of Play Regulations.
We would have to go to 4hr playing sessions to allow above 2200 players to participate, which is impossible to fit in due to the time constraints of the venue.
The other Scottish Chess Tour events do not have this restriction.
I hope this explains why the Inverness Chess Congress operates this restriction.
It would be better to drop the FIDE rating then and open the event to everyone. It's interesting how people get excited about discrimination for all sorts or reasons but being discriminated against for being too good is pretty weird and cannot be a good thing.
The reason to drop the length of the playing session had nothing to do with "discrimination" against 2200 and above players and everything to do with the venue and circumstances which the congress has to work around.
As to the FIDE aspect that makes no difference, as far as we can see, to the entry to this congress.
I would also note that in the previous Inverness congresses only 3 entrants were graded over 2200 at best, so not a difficult decision for us to make.
RE: Declining entries - George Neave - 11-09-2017
(11-09-2017, 08:43 PM)JMcNicoll Wrote:(11-09-2017, 07:39 PM)George Neave Wrote:It's also interesting how people feel able to pontificate about circumstances they know nothing about and throw about words like "discriminated".(11-09-2017, 03:29 PM)David Clayton Wrote: Just a quick reply to explain why the Inverness Chess Congress restricts entries to U2200.
In order to hold a FIDE rated tournament within a 3 hour playing session, we have to restrict the entries to U2200. It is part of the FIDE Rate of Play Regulations.
We would have to go to 4hr playing sessions to allow above 2200 players to participate, which is impossible to fit in due to the time constraints of the venue.
The other Scottish Chess Tour events do not have this restriction.
I hope this explains why the Inverness Chess Congress operates this restriction.
It would be better to drop the FIDE rating then and open the event to everyone. It's interesting how people get excited about discrimination for all sorts or reasons but being discriminated against for being too good is pretty weird and cannot be a good thing.
The reason to drop the length of the playing session had nothing to do with "discrimination" against 2200 and above players and everything to do with the venue and circumstances which the congress has to work around.
As to the FIDE aspect that makes no difference, as far as we can see, to the entry to this congress.
I would also note that in the previous Inverness congresses only 3 entrants were graded over 2200 at best, so not a difficult decision for us to make.
What I know about the circumstances before "pontificating" was based on what you said above. Set the time control that suits the venue and open the event to everyone. That's more important than worrying about which rating body will rate the games. Being inclusive is more important. We'll never know how many 2200's would have entered because they were not invited!
RE: Declining entries - JMcNicoll - 11-09-2017
(11-09-2017, 10:41 PM)George Neave Wrote:(11-09-2017, 08:43 PM)JMcNicoll Wrote:(11-09-2017, 07:39 PM)George Neave Wrote:It's also interesting how people feel able to pontificate about circumstances they know nothing about and throw about words like "discriminated".(11-09-2017, 03:29 PM)David Clayton Wrote: Just a quick reply to explain why the Inverness Chess Congress restricts entries to U2200.
In order to hold a FIDE rated tournament within a 3 hour playing session, we have to restrict the entries to U2200. It is part of the FIDE Rate of Play Regulations.
We would have to go to 4hr playing sessions to allow above 2200 players to participate, which is impossible to fit in due to the time constraints of the venue.
The other Scottish Chess Tour events do not have this restriction.
I hope this explains why the Inverness Chess Congress operates this restriction.
It would be better to drop the FIDE rating then and open the event to everyone. It's interesting how people get excited about discrimination for all sorts or reasons but being discriminated against for being too good is pretty weird and cannot be a good thing.
The reason to drop the length of the playing session had nothing to do with "discrimination" against 2200 and above players and everything to do with the venue and circumstances which the congress has to work around.
As to the FIDE aspect that makes no difference, as far as we can see, to the entry to this congress.
I would also note that in the previous Inverness congresses only 3 entrants were graded over 2200 at best, so not a difficult decision for us to make.
What I know about the circumstances before "pontificating" was based on what you said above. Set the time control that suits the venue and open the event to everyone. That's more important than worrying about which rating body will rate the games. Being inclusive is more important. We'll never know how many 2200's would have entered because they were not invited!
My only previous post on this thread was the one starting it so that may be another little inaccuracy, unless that's what you are referring to, in which case you may have to be a little more specific as I covered a lot of ground.
I clearly stated that the best the congress attracted was 3 over 2200 graded players and that was with the games going to FIDE rating. We adjusted the timing to accommodate the venue this year to keep the availability of a FIDE rated open available to that region of Scotland knowing that we would only appear to be disappointing, at most, 3 players. And at no time are any over 2200 graded players going to be, invited. They're not that important to the running of a congress.
I think this is a good thing to do, to give an opportunity to players to gain a FIDE rating giving them easier entry into the other FIDE rated events and a little closer to home than most of weekend congresses in Scotland.
But please, do carry on explaining how to run a chess congress, I'm sure every organiser in Scotland can't wait for the next bon mot.
RE: Declining entries - andyburnett - 12-09-2017
I was thinking about joining this thread to get away from that other one...have reconsidered now, but before I leave I have a feeling that chess-boxing might be worth a shot to attract entries to the next congress
RE: Declining entries - Andrew Greet - 12-09-2017
(11-09-2017, 03:29 PM)David Clayton Wrote: Just a quick reply to explain why the Inverness Chess Congress restricts entries to U2200.
In order to hold a FIDE rated tournament within a 3 hour playing session, we have to restrict the entries to U2200. It is part of the FIDE Rate of Play Regulations.
We would have to go to 4hr playing sessions to allow above 2200 players to participate, which is impossible to fit in due to the time constraints of the venue.
The other Scottish Chess Tour events do not have this restriction.
I hope this explains why the Inverness Chess Congress operates this restriction.
Thanks for explaining David; I never knew 2200 was a cut-off point for time controls. It's unfortunate that the venue was unable to accommodate four-hour playing sessions, but if that's the situation then so be it. I'll keep an eye on the congress in future years and hopefully will be able to play at some point. (Ideally not because my rating has fallen below 2200 though!)
RE: Declining entries - Andy Howie - 12-09-2017
Here are the regulations for time control (which is why we had to make the change last year for SNCL)
1.
Rate of Play
1.1
For a game to be rated each player must have the following minimum periods in which to complete all the moves, assuming the game lasts 60 moves.
Where at least one of the players in the game has a rating 2200 or higher, each player must have a minimum of 120 minutes.
Where at least one of the players in the game has a rating 1600 or higher, each player must have a minimum of 90 minutes.
Where both of the players in the game are rated below 1600, each player must have a minimum of 60 minutes.
1.2
Where a certain number of moves is specified in the first time control, it shall be 40 moves.
1.3 For a game to be rated on the Rapid list, each player must have more than ten minutes but less than sixty minutes.
1.4 For a game to be rated on the Blitz list, each player must have at least five but no more than ten minutes.
RE: Declining entries - Alex McFarlane - 13-09-2017
(12-09-2017, 11:51 PM)Andy Howie Wrote: 1.1I have highlighted an important change in the regulations. The previous wording was ... For a tournament to be rated.
For a game to be rated each player must have the following minimum periods in which to complete all the moves, assuming the game lasts 60 moves.
It is now possible to have a tournament partially rated. In an Open tournament with a 3 hour playing session games where both players are under 2200 would be rated but any other games would not. I'm not sure organisers would want to run such a tournament but it is possible
RE: Declining entries - George Neave - 13-09-2017
(11-09-2017, 01:36 PM)mclarke Wrote:(11-09-2017, 12:05 PM)George Neave Wrote: I don't mean to criticise the good work that folks are doing with juniors. My point was intended to be more about what happens when you reach 18 and what's on offer in the adult game. In a healthy sport one expects to see promotion from junior to senior as offering more opportunity and not less. It's a point for debate really - nothing more.
Sorry George, I wasn't taking that part as criticism and I didn't mean to come over as defensive as I think I did - sorry about that. I guess my comment is more the part about CS and tournament organisers focusing on juniors - I just don't think that aligns with what those of us in junior circles think - many of us would think the opposite - that the top players are looked after, but the juniors aren't. Some irony there perhaps.
Having run junior tournaments for about two years now, our economics are a lot simpler than a full weekend congress - we can reallocate medals and trophies if we're short of entries or have too many. It must be difficult for adult events when the prize money adds a huge fixed cost to your event. One other thing that is very common in junior chess - is the use of a venue multiple times a season (we play out of the same venue 6 times a year) - so it offers a bit of predictability for our players in terms of travel and what the event is going to be like, and quite a bit of predictability for organisers too. SNCL, David and John's FIDE Blitz also have this element too them - I wonder if that model of reusing a venue multiple times a season is a way forward of driving entries upwards.
(12-09-2017, 02:00 PM)Andrew Greet Wrote:(11-09-2017, 03:29 PM)David Clayton Wrote: Just a quick reply to explain why the Inverness Chess Congress restricts entries to U2200.
In order to hold a FIDE rated tournament within a 3 hour playing session, we have to restrict the entries to U2200. It is part of the FIDE Rate of Play Regulations.
We would have to go to 4hr playing sessions to allow above 2200 players to participate, which is impossible to fit in due to the time constraints of the venue.
The other Scottish Chess Tour events do not have this restriction.
I hope this explains why the Inverness Chess Congress operates this restriction.
Thanks for explaining David; I never knew 2200 was a cut-off point for time controls. It's unfortunate that the venue was unable to accommodate four-hour playing sessions, but if that's the situation then so be it. I'll keep an eye on the congress in future years and hopefully will be able to play at some point. (Ideally not because my rating has fallen below 2200 though!)
Alternatively, you could have dropped FIDE rating the event, had it CS rated only instead and open the event to all? I I an earlier post that 3 2200+ players entered in previously seasons That means ~ 3 players who played previously could not on this occasion. Personally I think finding a way to accommodate them should have taken priority over getting to rate the games. For me this is the key point.