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+--- Thread: what does Phil Thomas play as black (/thread-684.html)
Re: what does Phil Thomas play as black - Phil Thomas - 10-09-2013
Andrew,
interesting question. Clearly a major blunder which Ian probably realised at the time - probably before I played my next move.
It was not time trouble - I had several minutes less on the clock.
Perhaps mistake is partially understandable in terms of the recent position on the board after after 26 Nxf6 +. Black can get back to level pawns with 26.. Qxf6 But the pawn ending is (I believe*) won for white. That sort of thinking can gives white the impression that any pawn endings will be won.
* Is that conclusion agreed by the readers? - like Andy I haven't asked Fritz - and haven't pushed pieces around a board (yet).
Re: what does Phil Thomas play as black - Ianbrownlee - 11-09-2013
you're both right Andrew and Phil, the pawn ending is won obviously and so if Nxf6 I just fell asleep when I played g5. I reasoned it completly shut in the king therefore was the better move Willie's move with the queen to d8 also wins. I just had too many choices and took the wrong one! I did the exact same with Jimmy Doyle so it's something I have to work on the queen sacrifice was correct and I should have had the courage of my convictions and followed it through. I'll enclose Jimmy's game here and would welcome comments. I would welcome comments about how to overcome blind spots such as this
[pgn]1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 c5 4.d5 exd5 5.cxd5 d6 6.e4 g6 7.f4 Nfd7 8.Nf3 Bg7 9.Bd3 0-0 10.Be3 a6 11.a4 Re8 12.Qd2 Nf6 13.0-0 Ng4 14.e5 b6 15.h3 Nxe3 16.Qxe3 Bb7 17.Bc4 Qe7 18.Rfe1 Nd7 19.e6 Nf6 20.Qd3 Nh5 21.f5 Nf4 22.Qe4 Bh6 23.Ne2 Nxe2+ 24.Rxe2 g5 25.Rf1 Bg7 26.Qg4 f6 27.h4 h6 28.g3 Ra7 29.Rh2 Rea8 30.Qe4 b5 31.axb5 axb5 32.Bxb5 Ra1 33.Rhf2 R1a5 34.Qd3 Rb8 35.Bc4 Ba8 36.b3 Ra7 37.hxg5 fxg5 38.Nh2 Bd4 39.Ng4 Ra2 40.f6 Qh7 41.f7+ Kg7 42.Qxd4+ cxd4 43.f8Q+ Rxf8 44.Rxf8 Qc2 45.R8f2 Qe4 46.Rxa2 Qxg4 47.Rxa8 Qxg3+ 48.Kh1 ½-½[/pgn]
draw! I missed 47. Rf7! Kg6 48Bd3 ch and 49 Rh2 and also missed 42. Qxh7 and 43. e7 and finally 45. R1f7 ch Kg6 46. Rg8 ch and 47 Nf6 mate which would have looked good after the Queen sac!
Re: what does Phil Thomas play as black - Andrew McHarg - 12-09-2013
That was a very aesthetic game Ian, but you must have been frustrated to have missed so many opportunities. It's quite possible that had you been playing against a lower rated player you'd have spotted some of those? I mean psychologically you assume a higher rated player will have a plan for these situations, but I've come to learn that they don't always.
Not that I'm experienced enough to give you any Chess advice, but I'd say based on the above that you clearly have the ability to get into winning positions against these guys, so just need to take that extra few minutes in such positions to work out if you're missing the obvious or not.
Hope it helps.
Re: what does Phil Thomas play as black - Phil Thomas - 12-09-2013
Remember that this game was at Glasgow league time limit. After making 30 moves in slightly less than one hour there is a little over 15 minutes to finish the game. With a critical position on the board at move 40 both players will be short of time and taking short cuts with thinking processes.
Not sure how the really strong players approach would approach this situation but for me...…
For white’s 40th its very tempting to quickly play Nxh6+ and try to think in Black’s time and hope he chooses wrong square for the king.
What could take too much time is comparing that move with 40 f6 … another move that looks very strong. Seems best to play f6 rather quickly and then work out the win which surely is there – hopefully doing most calculations before Black replies.
42 Qd4 is the real blunder. Not one that Ian would normally make at any time limit.
Looks so simple now to play 42 Qxh7+ then 43 e7 and only after black’s next move work out which pawn promotes. Losing exchange on f2 square is trivial.
42 Qxd4 is surely due to time trouble. Given a few seconds to look round the board we would all realise that White has not sacc’d anything to reach this position. Swap queens then create two connected passed pawns on the seventh, they must be worth at least a rook & again try to think in opponent’s time.
Re: what does Phil Thomas play as black - Ianbrownlee - 12-09-2013
thanks for the comments guys I'll tryn and do better next time I think at the end in both games I was playing with the draw in mind attitude without looking deeper let's see what happens over the season. I would like to get a chance to play against the Dutch as I has prepared the Staunton gambit against it. May
be i'll get a game against you Phil. I don't think Qxd4 is a blunder as I believe there is a forced mate there but its 10 moves deep and | hadn't calculated all the variations. I just thought I was breaking through
d4
Re: what does Phil Thomas play as black - Alex Gillies - 12-09-2013
Ianbrownlee Wrote:thanks for the comments guys I'll tryn and do better next time I think at the end in both games I was playing with the draw in mind attitude without looking deeper let's see what happens over the season. I would like to get a chance to play against the Dutch as I has prepared the Staunton gambit against it. May
be i'll get a game against you Phil. I don't think Qxd4 is a blunder as I believe there is a forced mate there but its 10 moves deep and | hadn't calculated all the variations. I just thought I was breaking through
Hi Ian
qxd4 after Qc2 its a mate in 3 for white
Also your game with Jimmy - if in doubt/time trouble the k&p ending a pawn up - you cant really lose
Think you need some quickplay to sharpen the kill - poly is this month
d4
Re: what does Phil Thomas play as black - Andrew McHarg - 12-09-2013
Phil Thomas Wrote:42 Qd4 is the real blunder. Not one that Ian would normally make at any time limit.
It's not a blunder? I think it wins by force... although it might not be the most obvious way to play. I'd have probably traded the Queens and pushed the pawn = easier win to spot. But anything that wins by force can't be considered a blunder. 8)
Re: what does Phil Thomas play as black - Phil Thomas - 12-09-2013
But Andrew
If Qxd4 with the correct follow up wins and you can't see the follow up and you consequently lose.... then Qxd4 is a blunder.
On that theme and it might not be the case in this game sometimes it is wrong to play the strongest move - sometimes the second strongest move is easier to calculate through to a win.
Re: what does Phil Thomas play as black - Ianbrownlee - 12-09-2013
Alex Gillies Wrote:Ianbrownlee Wrote:thanks for the comments guys I'll tryn and do better next time I think at the end in both games I was playing with the draw in mind attitude without looking deeper let's see what happens over the season. I would like to get a chance to play against the Dutch as I has prepared the Staunton gambit against it. May
be i'll get a game against you Phil. I don't think Qxd4 is a blunder as I believe there is a forced mate there but its 10 moves deep and | hadn't calculated all the variations. I just thought I was breaking through
Hi Ian
qxd4 after Qc2 its a mate in 3 for white
Also your game with Jimmy - if in doubt/time trouble the k&p ending a pawn up - you cant really lose
Think you need some quickplay to sharpen the kill - poly is this month
d4
I know I've entered
Re: what does Phil Thomas play as black - Andrew McHarg - 13-09-2013
Phil Thomas Wrote:If Qxd4 with the correct follow up wins and you can't see the follow up and you consequently lose.... then Qxd4 is a blunder.
On that theme and it might not be the case in this game sometimes it is wrong to play the strongest move - sometimes the second strongest move is easier to calculate through to a win.
I think that's debatable. I'd be more inclined to suggest that missing the follow up is the blunder. Perhaps a mistake if you don't see the follow up prior to making it, but a blunder (to me) implies a move that immediately turns the whole tide of a game on its own.
But I agree that it's sometimes better to make the more obvious move that leads to an easier win, even if it's technically not the strongest. I've done that loads of times. Ironically, it often leads to a quicker win because the opponent resigns earlier realising there are no realistic opportunities for you to mess it up anymore.