+- Forums (https://www.chessscotland.com/forum)
+-- Forum: Members Only (https://www.chessscotland.com/forum/forum-16.html)
+--- Forum: Non-Chess Related (https://www.chessscotland.com/forum/forum-23.html)
+--- Thread: Scottish Council election - Hamilton players (/thread-244.html)
Re: Scottish Council election - Hamilton players - Derek Howie - 10-05-2012
Andrew McHarg Wrote:Derek Howie Wrote:Andrew McHarg Wrote:Ironically I think unionist Rangers fans are far more anti-English than any nationalists are.In what way are Rangers supporters anti-English?
That's the most ridiculous thing said on this thread and that's saying something!
Andrew McHarg Wrote:That's the point I was making, they aren't particularly anti-English, but are far more so than the SNP are.
Sorry, but that's still ridiculous.
Andrew McHarg Wrote:My viewpoint being based on the fact that almost every Rangers supporter I know wants England to lose every international football match they play, yet I want England to win generally speaking (unless they are playing against Scotland).
Firstly, being anti-English and wanting the English football team to lose are two totally different things.
Secondly, are you really basing your opinion on a sample size of SNP supporters of one?
Thirdly, I know lots of Scottish Rangers fans who are ambivalent when it comes to the Scottish national team and I know lots who want England to win (with the same proviso as you). I am only aware of one SNP supporter (you) who is happy to support the English football team, although I'm sure that there may be a few more.
The main conclusions I'd come to are that it's wrong to generalise and it's best to keep party politics away from chess. 8)
Re: Scottish Council election - Hamilton players - Andrew McHarg - 10-05-2012
Derek Howie Wrote:Firstly, being anti-English and wanting the English football team to lose are two totally different things.
How exactly?
Wanting England to lose if they are playing teams from the other side of the world is absolutely anti-English. There should be more of a motivation to support our closest friend/neigbour than their opponents in such circumstances, and that many don't is anti-English - seriously or humourously - but anti-English nonetheless. =) Derek Howie Wrote:Secondly, are you really basing your opinion on a sample size of SNP supporters of one?
No, I know lots of people in the SNP, from ordinary supporters all the way through to MSPs. Very few of them would I consider to be anti-English, and even those who are are not anti-English because they are SNP voters, they are anti-English for a variety of cultural and media-driven reasons (such as the apparent duty of a Scottish fan to support "anyone but England"). Name one thing the First Minister, or indeed the SNP, have said that's anti-English. Wanting to govern our own affairs is no more anti-English than a child leaving home is anti-parents. =)
Derek Howie Wrote:The main conclusions I'd come to are that it's wrong to generalise and it's best to keep party politics away from chess. 8)
I do agree here.
Re: Scottish Council election - Hamilton players - Andrew McHarg - 10-05-2012
And on that note I am seriously going to avoid discussing politics on this forum in future. I do genuinly agree that the forum will descend into something that none of us want it to be. It's a chess forum at the end of the day.
Re: Scottish Council election - Hamilton players - Derek Howie - 10-05-2012
Andrew McHarg Wrote:How exactly?
Claiming someone is anti-English is accusing them of racism. Wanting a football team to lose is an entirely different thing.
For example, I may want England to lose if John Terry plays for them and want them to win if he doesn't. Neither feeling impacts my opinions of the English (or the English football team) but purely my views of John Terry.
Andrew McHarg Wrote:No, I know lots of people in the SNP, from ordinary supporters all the way through to MSPs. Very few of them would I consider to be anti-English, and even those who are are not anti-English because they are SNP voters, they are anti-English for a variety of cultural and media-driven reasons (such as the apparent duty of a Scottish fan to support "anyone but England"). Name one thing the First Minister, or indeed the SNP, have said that's anti-English. Wanting to govern our own affairs is no more anti-English than a child leaving home is anti-parents. =)
I have made no claims about the SNP so will pass on your kind invitation to get dragged into the politics discussion. =) It sounds like you know a lot more SNP people than I do, so are in a better position to comment about them.
Re: Scottish Council election - Hamilton players - Mike Scott - 10-05-2012
Quote:Claiming someone is anti-English is accusing them of racismHardly, especially as 'English' is a nationality and not a race.
Re: Scottish Council election - Hamilton players - Derek Howie - 10-05-2012
"The term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction, or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin."
The law courts in Scotland have found people guilty of racism for making comments based on nationality.
Re: Scottish Council election - Hamilton players - Angus McDonald - 10-05-2012
Derek is ofcourse right and I must refine my use of the term 'Anti English' in relation to the SNP to 'Anti British' because I could certainly prove in a court of law that their desire is to 100% end my right to be 'British' which is pretty 'Anti British' in my opinion. What's more I could prove that 'British' is a bona fide ethnic/national group.
I could probably prove the 'Anti English' tag also but I'd have to do a lot of scouring through various SNP politicians speeches over the years to prove that and I cannae be bothered doing that a va. So I drop the naming of SNP as 'Anti English' and reemphasise that they are 'Anti British' even with a devolved parliament within in Scotland. Not so much leaving home but more like shooting them and burying them 20 feet deep. =)
That's over and out from me and support from me for the moderator to encourage all to keep party politics off this noticeboard starting with Chess Scotland Directors!!!! and Selectors!!
Re: Scottish Council election - Hamilton players - Andy Howie - 10-05-2012
Angus McDonald Wrote:That's over and out from me and support from me for the moderator to encourage all to keep party politics off this noticeboard starting with Chess Scotland Directors!!!! and Selectors!!
Anyone else, TD's, Friends of Directors....
Re: Scottish Council election - Hamilton players - Mike Scott - 10-05-2012
Derek,
I stand legally corrected but must say that seems a bit of a daft and circular argument as it appears to be defining race as being defined by your nationality and/or colour and/or ethnicity and/or race.
Re: Scottish Council election - Hamilton players - Angus McDonald - 11-05-2012
Quote:Re: Scottish Council election - Hamilton players
by Andy Howie ยป Thu May 10, 2012 9:50 pm
Angus McDonald wrote:That's over and out from me and support from me for the moderator to encourage all to keep party politics off this noticeboard starting with Chess Scotland Directors!!!! and Selectors!!
Anyone else, TD's, Friends of Directors....
The standard I am requesting is quite obvious. Clearly if Party politics is kept off the noticeboard it means everybody as is the meaning of the word 'all' above. Being obtuse about it is quite obviously another dig at myself by you. The thread and party supporting comments were made by a Chess Scotland Director and Selector.