+- Forums (https://www.chessscotland.com/forum)
+-- Forum: Members Only (https://www.chessscotland.com/forum/forum-16.html)
+--- Forum: General Chess Chat (https://www.chessscotland.com/forum/forum-3.html)
+--- Thread: AGM proposals (/thread-1287.html)
Re: AGM proposals - WBuchanan - 07-08-2015
To Andy Burnett
Hi Andy.
“As for point 2, is there any particular reason for wanting 'grandparent' rather than 'parent' as the qualifying criteria? I imagine this is the norm for other countries/other sports -just wondering if there were other reasons?!”
No particular reason Andy. I just want it to be voted on, so the membership can decide – after all we’ve been told often enough they have the choice but it’s NOT currently on offer. If it’s not voted on it will likely be decided by the preferences of a small group of people. After the vote it will be known what the membership want.
OK you would suggest adding (highlighted) “must be a member of Chess Scotland, be registered as Scottish with FIDE and must …” !? (This would only affect the Championship as you say as International selections would require the SCO code already).
That’s fine, another thing that I think should be voted on - if it seems that might be the general feeling it can be added as an amendment or (better) put as another motion like I did with the grandparent rule. I didn’t want to add it myself as I’ve never had a problem with Mark Orr who’s played in it for 35 years being Scottish Champion!
“Also, if Jacob decided he wanted to represent SCO again…”
I intended this would be to dealt with by the Operating Procedures (the bit in brackets). I didn’t want to try to write the whole section myself, not least because there are aspects I know little about.
In my proposal the Operating Procedures deal with ….“any ‘fadeout’ period for players qualifying on residence that later leave Scotland”. You could add “or change registered country", or words to that effect.
Members can specify additional criteria – this might be a good place to do it or might be better as an amendment or, again, if another motion followed it so the choice would be clear.
Cheers
Re: AGM proposals - WBuchanan - 07-08-2015
Derek Howie Wrote:WBuchanan Wrote:1) AGM Proposal on eligibility:
To be eligible to compete for any Scottish individual national championship title, or to be eligible to represent Scotland in any international competition a person must be a member of Chess Scotland and must meet at least one of the prevailing eligibility requirements relating to
The wording of this should be changed to ensure that junior national championships are excluded. The Primary Individual and Girls Championship could be described as "Scottish individual national championships" but there is currently no requirement to be a member of CS to compete and putting this stipulation in place would exclude many kids from competing.
Hi Derek.
Yes I agree – the whole junior scene is quite a big area to be handled within the umbrella of 'other issues'. Can you suggest a suitable wording or would you like me to (could be a bad idea ….
) !?Cheers
Re: AGM proposals - WBuchanan - 07-08-2015
To Jim Webster
Thanks Jim.
“Currently Chess Scotland do not have Operating Procedures, are you trying to place constraints on the development of any potentially future rules/regulations?”
It’s not about my constraints Jim, the members will vote on the constraints. I haven’t made any constraints up, these are from the status quo and expressed members views, and members will ratify them or not. Isn’t that democracy? Under management proposals management will have total control and that means they can override the membership view if they want. To me, that can’t be right - on such an important issue too.
Of course, CS members might reject this motion and prefer to vote to give carte blanche to selectors and officials - but then that’s their choice and I would then respect it equally.
“The allocation of the 'SCO' is not under the control of the eligibility rules for of Scottish Championship criteria as far as I am aware. Is this motion therefore trying to do two different things?
- determine requirements for Scottish Championship eligibility.
- determine criteria for the allocation of the FIDE 'SCO" registration.”
The main eligibility criteria like ‘Scottishness’ shall primarily be set by the Scottish membership voting after which they should be respected by officials and selectors (who will still have considerable freedom within those constraints) and incorporated into Championship criteria.
So no, your first statement above is not correct.
Doing two different things? You know perfectly well that management want the SCO code to provide eligibility on its own - ie the same two 'different things'!
“I personally don't have a problem with the intent of the proposal but do oppose the paragraph quoted above since it is applying constraints to something that may or may not happen in the future.”
The CWP reassure us that Operating Procedures will deal with all future selection issues and (according to the legend that is the minutes), you proposed this at the SGM even though it had been stated that no other motions were to be voted on.
Still, I accept you have a point Jim - in case the Operating Procedures don’t happen, here’s my amended suggestion:
“These primary requirements shall be built into Chess Scotland’s criteria for eligibility for national Championships and international selection, and into future Operating Procedures that relate to eligibility.”
Is this better?
Finally you say
“In any case Operating Procedures, as currently envisaged, would need the approval of a General Meeting any vote at that would simply overwrite this stipulation (as with any AGM/SGM motion, a rule in the past can be repealed at a future date by another AGM/SGM motion).”
I think that’s where we differ. You see having Operating Procedures as handing control to the Operators. I don’t (unless a majority of CS members say that I do
) ). Thanks for your input
Cheers
Re: AGM proposals - Derek Howie - 07-08-2015
WBuchanan Wrote:Derek Howie Wrote:WBuchanan Wrote:1) AGM Proposal on eligibility:
To be eligible to compete for any Scottish individual national championship title, or to be eligible to represent Scotland in any international competition a person must be a member of Chess Scotland and must meet at least one of the prevailing eligibility requirements relating to
The wording of this should be changed to ensure that junior national championships are excluded. The Primary Individual and Girls Championship could be described as "Scottish individual national championships" but there is currently no requirement to be a member of CS to compete and putting this stipulation in place would exclude many kids from competing.
Hi Derek.
Yes I agree – the whole junior scene is quite a big area to be handled within the umbrella of 'other issues'. Can you suggest a suitable wording or would you like me to (could be a bad idea ….
Cheers
Just add in "adult" before Scottish?
To be eligible to compete for any adult Scottish individual national championship title.....
Re: AGM proposals - Jim Webster - 07-08-2015
Derek
I don't think just adding "adult" is sufficient. That does not seem to preclude these tournaments having entry requirements making CS membership a condition of entry.
Re: AGM proposals - andyburnett - 07-08-2015
Derek Howie Wrote:WBuchanan Wrote:1) AGM Proposal on eligibility:
To be eligible to compete for any Scottish individual national championship title, or to be eligible to represent Scotland in any international competition a person must be a member of Chess Scotland and must meet at least one of the prevailing eligibility requirements relating to
The wording of this should be changed to ensure that junior national championships are excluded. The Primary Individual and Girls Championship could be described as "Scottish individual national championships" but there is currently no requirement to be a member of CS to compete and putting this stipulation in place would exclude many kids from competing.
There is a slight problem with the wording here. If we remove 'to compete' from Walter's proposal, then it wouldn't prevent non CS members from actually playing, but they wouldn't be eligible for the actual title.
If these are CS titles then I don't see anything particularly wrong with this, although I'm sure those more involved in chess at Primary level will have a few comments to make
Re: AGM proposals - Derek Howie - 07-08-2015
Jim Webster Wrote:Derek
I don't think just adding "adult" is sufficient. That does not seem to preclude these tournaments having entry requirements making CS membership a condition of entry.
Jim, don't quite see the point that you're making, but I'm not that happy with my suggestion anyway as adult doesn't really describe the competitions that we could be requiring CS membership for.
Re: AGM proposals - Jim Webster - 07-08-2015
The current Scottish Championship rules are here
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://chessscotland.com/csinfo/Rules/Scottish_Championship_Entry_Rules_14.pdf">http://chessscotland.com/csinfo/Rules/S ... les_14.pdf</a><!-- m -->
and perhaps this is where any proposed changes to Scottish Championship Eligibility should be directed.
The motion, as it stands, doesn't seem to fit anywhere else at present.
Re: AGM proposals - WBuchanan - 07-08-2015
Thanks Derek, Andy B, Jim. Hadn’t thought of primary schools, of course they wouldn’t need CS membership…
I'm not sure the problem is with my motion though? Even the proposed new constitution said
“16.1. To be eligible to compete for any Scottish individual national championship title (including open to all, gender or age-related championship tournaments) a person must be a member of Chess Scotland and meet at least one of the following requirements:”
So would primary tournaments have had the same issue? I don't think primary tournaments are mentioned anywhere in the same place as adult eligibility criteria (doesn't mean this proposal doesn't need to be correct though
).Derek and Jim – would it suffice to add “excluding primary school events”?
Jim thanks I see you've just answered below
So if this were changed to:
"To be eligible to compete for any Scottish individual national championship title (excluding primary school events), or to be eligible to represent Scotland in any international competition a person must be a member of Chess Scotland and ..."
Is the proposal OK vis-a-vis juniors then!? My concerns did relate mainly to the eligibility rules for adults and I thought people would chime in to correct any defin=ciencies on other fronts.
Cheers
Re: AGM proposals - Jim Webster - 07-08-2015
I think that it would be sufficient to propose changing the rules mentioned above for adult/senior events - primary schools don't seem to be covered by that.
Chess Scotland Primary school tournaments should, possibly, have their own set of rules specifically tailored much in the same way as the Scottish Championship does.