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+--- Thread: Cheating (/thread-1207.html)
Cheating - Ianbrownlee - 16-04-2015
Hi Guys
with the issue of cheating coming to the fore, I'm wondering what if anything we should be doing if and when cheating comes to Scotland. I would like the following questions discussed
Would the standards committee be involved and what degree of powers should be involved or should it be down to the arbiters committee
How do we define cheating ? its more than the obvious attempt to win a game. I've seen players using bad gamesmanship to try and get an advantage. I've witnessed teams "telegraph" their appraisal of a player's position, and now we've seen in an international tournament a grandmaster use a phone outside of the playing area and another GM write notes down. The two GM's were subject to FIDE but most tournaments in Scotland are not FIDE rated, so who decides who is cheating and who decides the punishment
Does alleged cheating have to be reported at the time. I myself have been badgered during a tournament but I was so thick I didn't realise it at the time. I've seen a player write a move down on a scoresheet but inadvertently played another, however the opponent tried every means to force the player to play the move written down, in my opinion crossed the line in gamesmanship.
I know how important it is to follow the rules and regulations but humans make human error and sometimes a minor infringement can be blown up out of proportion.
There are players out there who sometimes rely on knowing the latest rules and regulations. I know of two instances where a player promoted to a queen but hit the clock before placing the queen on the board. In one instance the player was told by his opponent he played an illegal move and the opponent created as much noise as he could to try and put the opponent off. In another occasion a player playing me did the same but I waited until after the match when I explained in a light hearted way the correct procedure.
I played in a team tournament recently where a player twice (in my opinion because I saw and heard it) deliberately dropped pieces on the floor because the player dropped his pen. What I'm trying to say is that there are different forms of cheating , and for the cheat to get away with it he has to be clandestine about it.
We've all seen league events where the draw claim is at best misunderstood and at worst abused. The most common one is where one player claims a draw and both teams weigh in with opinions. Also the "no practical winning chances" claim seems to invite team wide discussion. Here's another - a player has King Knight and Bishop v King and the opponent stops the clock stating that the player has no knowledge of winning that type of END game. How does he know that especially if its a known type of endgame.
Rant over, The bottom line is that should we have an anti-cheating officer to deal with all this
Re: Cheating - Phil Thomas - 16-04-2015
For King vs K+B+N it should be the usual technique in 2 minute claims with no arbiter present. The more moves you can write down the stronger your claim to the draw. Especially wise would be to stop the game after a 2 fold repetition.
A question for all about chess matches. It is widely accepted throughout the chess world that it is OK for a player to ask his team captain if it OK to accept the draw he's just been offered. My question to the readers - should that option to ask the captain's opinion be outlawed?
Re: Cheating - Geoff Chandler - 16-04-2015
Hi Ian,
You are mixing up cheating with stupidity in the heat of the moment.
A cheat takes a mobile to a game fully intent on using it. It is premeditated.
You cannot decide before a game that you will start dropping pieces on the floor,
claim spurious draws or anything like that. 99.99% of games are played without any incident.
Most(all) of this silliness that I have witnessed is spur of the moment stuff and
often regretted 5 minutes later.
King, Knight & Bishop v King.
In such cases just play it out. It easy doing it v a computer in the safety of your bedroom.
Much harder doing it v a human with a clock ticking and a sniggering crowd watching.
The worse thing about a crowd around your board is they are blocking your way to the toilet.
By coincidence I recently posted an example (one of 32 I have on record)
where a player stalemated their opponent in the wrong corner.
And I always take delight in showing it being done in the 'wrong corner'.
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.redhotpawn.com/blog/blogread.php?blogpostid=226">http://www.redhotpawn.com/blog/blogread ... postid=226</a><!-- m -->
(where you also get a picture for your scrap book of me leaning against a Black Rook.)
Re: Cheating - Ianbrownlee - 16-04-2015
Geoff Chandler Wrote:You cannot decide before a game that you will start dropping pieces on the floor,claim spurious draws or anything like that. 99.99% of games are played without any incident.
what happened in this case is the result of previous antagonism between two teams which erupted when one player in the recent match dropped his pen on the floor causing the other player to be upset. As I said there is a history between this two teams which I was partly aware of but did not appreciate until I saw what happened.
I still say that in this situation there should be a process to generally arbitrate these grievances. I should say in fairness that unfortunately those two clubs are not able in winding each other up. This is different from the initial discussion which is based on cheating. There is all sorts of cheating (at different levels) going on. Sometimes I believe its part of a strategy to gain a physiological advantage, sometimes its the darkside of us, sometimes its stupidity.
Re: Cheating - Andy Howie - 16-04-2015
I did have this on the agenda for the Council meeting but decided to withdraw it as I am not far enough along with my idea on the best way to deal with this.
Here are my thoughts at the moment but as I say it is a long way off at the moment as I need to consult with my collegues on the ACC about one of the aspects of this.
My ultimate preference (which would take quite a bit of setting up) would be for a Anti Cheating Committee (although a better name would be needed) and adoption of a system not unlike FIDE's whereas the committee investigates and educates (the education piece is the most important) with findings of the investigation passed on to a second body for "inspection" and delivery of sentence. (Could this be Standards Committee? I don't know)
For FIDE rated games we are ok as it would all be handled by the FIDE system. This would be for domestic games only.
Education piece is around prevention, what to look for etc etc
Sentences for people caught cheating (IMHO)? For a "Gross" offence (using phone in the toilet a la our Georgian GM etc) has to be a ban, Second offence life ban. I am with Geoff here no one goes to a congress etc with the intention of knocking pieces off, however someone using their phone has pre planned it.
Out of interest, I have now worked out two ways to check if a player has been using a mobile phone in the toilet (without using hidden cameras or a search!!) will be testing this at congresses but will have to ask someone who has finished their game to do it to test as I don't expect to catch anyone!! I don't think we have a cheating problem here!
Re: Cheating - Ianbrownlee - 16-04-2015
basic jammers would solve the phone/internet issue, however I'm banging on about people trying to abuse the rules etc, not clandestine (I really do like that word) cheating. I like your ideas Andy and your sentiments although I have seen cheating ( or maybe closer to extreme gamesmanship ) at regional chess level and at the SNCL dressed covertly as following the rules. I am not prepared to go into detail on this forum but I will discuss in person with anyone who contacts me
Re: Cheating - Ianbrownlee - 17-04-2015
There is an article from a pundit writing in one of my groups in chess.com regarding an alleged conspiracy against Wesley So. Its makes serious allegations against " a certain gentleman" who apparently arranged for So's relatives to come and harass him before and during the championships and booked his relatives into the same hotel as So. Apparently these allegations can be backed up by tracking a credit card. So apparently now has a police escort every day and has a banning order against his relatives. This campaign can be backtracked to well before the tournament . The "certain gentleman" is not a relative and apparently has direct links to chess. If anyone has any information about this then please let me know
Re: Cheating - Andy Howie - 17-04-2015
Its already in the public domain. If you follow the twitter feeds of the main chess news outlets, all the links are there
Re: Cheating - Geoff Chandler - 24-04-2015
![[Image: b4u437199-1429628371.jpg]](http://www.redhotpawn.com/imgu/blog/1/b4u437199-1429628371.jpg)
http://www.redhotpawn.com/blog/blogread.php?blogpostid=237