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Olympiad Goals - Alan Tate - 13-09-2016
Judging success by seeding positions is pointless. You need 3 players to significantly perform above their ratings in order to get results. The women managed this and I'd say they had a (relatively) successful tournament. Whether it's right that female 1600s get more funding than male 2300s is another question.
Open team: In order to measure success you first need to have targets. What are the objectives of Scotland at the Olympiad?
To perform (relatively) well? Clearly not. If this were an ambition then we would not be spending £400-500 (est.) per head on (mostly) rusty players. Surely some practice games or training beforehand would indicate that we are serious.
To progress players? Not really, hard to say. Andrew on board 1 was correct, but putting the 2015 Scottish Champion on 5 when he had shown encouraging signs the year before while boards 2 and 4 simply sat on their ratings was wrong.
Norms? Norms are nice and they are worth double at Olympiads. But this should not be a primary objective at a team competition.
An opportunity for part-timers to have a holiday? This one is a little unfair, but when you see people playing for a draw with White it does make you wonder....
For the life of me I can't figure out if there is a clear goal. Please help.
Re: Olympiad Goals - George Murphy - 13-09-2016
“Whether it's right that female 1600s get more funding than male 2300s is another question.”
Sorry, but that’s a sad and elitist attitude that is inappropriate. The Ladies deserve every bit as much financial support as the Men. We are all members together are we not?
Re: Olympiad Goals - robin moore - 13-09-2016
Alan throwing his hat into the ring early for women's team captain at the next olympiad.
Re: Olympiad Goals - iaing - 13-09-2016
Quote:Andrew on board 1 was correct, but putting the 2015 Scottish Champion on 5 when he had shown encouraging signs the year before while boards 2 and 4 simply sat on their ratings was wrong.
Alan,
While you make some good points I think this is a bit silly. Neil is a very good player and a friend but John (our board 2) is a GM and even playing below par managed to perform at 2400 level. He is a stronger player than Neil, you or I.
I'm also unsure why you singled me out with the
Quote:sat on their ratingscomment given that in 2016 I played 4NCL and Capelle la Grande and made an appearance in the English County Champs. The
Quote:encouraging signs the year beforedefinitely applies to Neil but unless my memory fails me I scored an IM norm in the 4NCL in 2015, missed a norm by a whisker in Jersey and had played at about 2450 level last year so honestly I think you'd be better served sticking to making constructive comments rather than making ill-informed swipes at players trying to do their best for their country.
I'd be the first to admit I played below par in the Olympiad but these things happen. If you are unhappy that you weren't selected there is an easy solution: you've shown plenty of times that when in form you are able to play at a very high level so get your rating over 2400 and then, ahem, sit on your rating...
Re: Olympiad Goals - andyburnett - 14-09-2016
ffs - I turn my back for 1 minute and this is what happens!
Please, by all means discuss these things guys, but do try to keep 'personal attacks' out of it. Nothing will improve if we end up at each others throats and/or pissed off.
I have my own views on what we need to improve and how to do so, but need a little time before posting them.
I was very happy with how all our players conducted themselves/ their work ethic/etc in Baku. There is room for improvement in lots of areas, but the Olympiad had more positives than negatives for Scotland in my opinion.
Andy Burnett (CS International Director)
Re: Olympiad Goals - Alan Tate - 14-09-2016
Firstly, there are no personal attacks here. I have played the last two Olympiads (performed badly) and watched this one. I witnessed a general apathy and disregard for any kind of match strategy. To see players under perform like this consistently and nothing being done about it is infuriating (Andy B's comment is noted). The lack of belief hurt in 2012, 2014, and 2016. Should I just sit back and let apathy set in like everyone else seems to have done?
George Murphy Wrote:Sorry, but that’s a sad and elitist attitude that is inappropriate. The Ladies deserve every bit as much financial support as the Men. We are all members together are we not?
Sorry, but did you know it's possible to ask a question without having a concrete opinion? Have you ever considered the possibility that positive discrimination holds women back? I believe in equality. And it's not men and women, it's OPEN and women.
iaing Wrote:Alan,
While you make some good points I think this is a bit silly. Neil is a very good player and a friend but John (our board 2) is a GM and even playing below par managed to perform at 2400 level. He is a stronger player than Neil, you or I.
I'm also unsure why you singled me out with theQuote:sat on their ratingscomment given that in 2016 I played 4NCL and Capelle la Grande and made an appearance in the English County Champs. TheQuote:encouraging signs the year beforedefinitely applies to Neil but unless my memory fails me I scored an IM norm in the 4NCL in 2015, missed a norm by a whisker in Jersey and had played at about 2450 level last year so honestly I think you'd be better served sticking to making constructive comments rather than making ill-informed swipes at players trying to do their best for their country.
I'd be the first to admit I played below par in the Olympiad but these things happen. If you are unhappy that you weren't selected there is an easy solution: you've shown plenty of times that when in form you are able to play at a very high level so get your rating over 2400 and then, ahem, sit on your rating...
Hi Iain, I didn't single you out - John was also included. Seeing as you pressed me, you played 24 games 2 seasons ago and 14 last season. I'm sure you're a nice guy but I've only seen you once at a Scottish tournament, at the Scottish in Edinburgh in 2009. That may well have been John's last Scottish as well but I can't be bothered to check. Neil won it last year, and has been making an effort to play a lot - probably more than yours and John's games combined. Commitment should be rewarded and I would have put him on a higher board for that. Board 1, and to some extent board 2, should be a leader. Andrew deserves praise for this and frankly showed more heart and fighting spirit than any of the native born Scots. You can't have part-timers on high boards. It sets a bad example to the rest and honestly I found it insulting and discouraging in both Olympiads that I played.
I'm glad I was not selected for this Olympiad and deserved to be dropped (although selections really need to be made closer to the tournament in order to get a better idea of form. How to hit a tournament on good form? is another question that needs answered). Dropping players in any competitive sport is an effective motivator, as is 'demoting' players to a lower board (when I cross 2400 I have no intention of going into rating protection mode).
All I ask for is serious pre-tournament preparation, 100% commitment to the team, and a belief that we can win.
Re: Olympiad Goals - Matthew Turner - 14-09-2016
Without singling anyone out the players in the Open Olympiad team have done a lot for Scottish Chess over the years and it is good that Chess Scotland supports a representative team. That said the current team is not going to be future of Scottish chess (hopefully). I would suggest that we shouldn't spend too much time worrying bout how we can eke out a 2450 performance rather than a 2400 one. The real challenge is how we can bring through the next generation of players. How about a target of a top 30 finish by 2026?
30th this year were Australia Average rating 2519
32
30
25
15
24
I have including the Australian ages
Re: Olympiad Goals - hamish olson - 14-09-2016
Disappointingly constructive comment Matthew, I was hoping this discussion was going to get entertaining but looks like we are mostly being too reasonable so far!
Re: Olympiad Goals - Alan Tate - 14-09-2016
Matthew Turner Wrote:The real challenge is how we can bring through the next generation of players.
One idea would be to use the European Team Championship as a place for the next generation to get experience against top opposition. How about the next gen applying for it? £300 towards expenses and it's in Greece next year.
andyburnett Wrote:I was very happy with how all our players conducted themselves/ their work ethic/etc in Baku.
Yes, and pre-tournament preparation involved what, exactly... Online blitz?
I'm not saying that our GMs are finished, but they need a serious kick up the ****. If I ever get to the stage where it's about protecting what I have and not even enjoying it, I trust that someone will do the same for me.
Look at Torre. 64 and a bronze medal! If that doesn't inspire I don't know what does.
Re: Olympiad Goals - Alan Tate - 14-09-2016
More ideas:
Performance related bonuses/pay
Minimum number of games played
John Shaw rook endgame seminar
Olympiad players to hold an event pre-Olympiad, such as simuls, lectures, or exhibition matches
.....
Also Matthew if you want to develop players the money has to come from somewhere. Once again, £5000 or whatever it is for the Olympiad in its current format may not be the best use of funds.