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+--- Thread: Pieces Knocked over (/thread-1718.html)
Pieces Knocked over - PeterReidSmith - 08-08-2017
I really should do that arbiter course, but anyway:
If piece(s) knocked over and clock pressed, then either player can press the clock again until the board is setup appropriately by the offending piece-knocker-overer, yes?
e.g.
My move and I knock over some pieces (and press the clock).
It's then ok for either I, or my opponent, to quickly press the clock back to me until the board is reasonably back to normal?
RE: Pieces Knocked over - Phil Thomas - 08-08-2017
(08-08-2017, 07:23 PM)PeterReidSmith Wrote: I really should do that arbiter course, but anyway:
If piece(s) knocked over and clock pressed, then either player can press the clock again until the board is setup appropriately by the offending piece-knocker-overer, yes?
e.g.
My move and I knock over some pieces (and press the clock).
It's then ok for either I, or my opponent, to quickly press the clock back to me until the board is reasonably back to normal?
Sounds correctly me. But what happens if game is one played with incremental timings?
Does the player who knocked pieces over get bonus 30 Seconds? Not Good outcome if he is in severe time trouble.
In that case hope that arbiter with wisdom.of Solomon is watching.
PS Solomon had it easy...cut the baby in half obvious solution
RE: Pieces Knocked over - Andy Howie - 08-08-2017
Article 7 of the FIDE Laws of chess
7.4.1
If a player displaces one or more pieces, he shall re-establish the correct position in his own time.
7.4.2
If necessary, either the player or his opponent shall stop the chessclock and ask for the arbiter’s assistance.
7.4.3
The arbiter may penalise the player who displaced the pieces.
7.8.1. If the player presses the clock without making a move, it shall be considered as an illegal move.
7.8.2 For the first violation of the rule 7.8.1, the arbiter shall give two minutes extra time to his opponent; for the second violation of the rule 7.8.1 by the same player the arbiter shall declare the game lost by this player. However, the game is drawn if the position is such that the opponent cannot checkmate the player’s king by any possible series of legal moves.
RE: Pieces Knocked over - PeterReidSmith - 09-08-2017
So, to remove any ambiguity: 7.4.2 overrides 7.8.1 in these specific circumstances - I.e it's ok to press the clock without making a move (to ensure the opponent sorts the board out in their own time) ?
Or...not...and the only thing you can do is point it out to them or STOP the clock...?
Hmmm...in practical terms that could tricky - there's often no time for such subtlety. Ideally it should be an exception to 7.8.1 so you can just start their clock again.
RE: Pieces Knocked over - Alex McFarlane - 09-08-2017
The Laws of Chess are now written on the assumption that increments are being used. Anything without increments is now regarded as the exception.
Restarting the opponent's clock and thereby adding increments is not allowed. The clock may be stopped (or, more accurately, paused) for anything requiring an arbiter.
7.4.1 represents the case where the player displacing the piece has not yet pressed the clock.
7.4.2 covers both the situation where the clock has been pressed and/or the players disagree or are uncertain about the position of the displaced piece or pieces.
7.8.1 Is designed for the situation where the player on the move tries to gain some valuable thinking time by disturbing the opponent by pressing the clock without making a move. This was previously seen as a way of overcoming the penalty for making an illegal move and still gaining valuable thinking time.
It is not intended to be used in situations of genuine confusion so I would hope that a player who restarted the opponent's clock following the displacement of a piece would not be deemed to have made an illegal move.
A player who thinks he forgot to press his clock on the previous move MAY also be regarded as an exception (though proving this may be difficult - the time when it is done would be significant eg early in the game give benefit of doubt but if in time trouble then almost certainly counts as an illegal move).
Some tournaments, particularly blitz ones, have a rule which states that the penalty for displacing a piece and pressing the clock before replacing it will be the loss of the game. The problem area is usually when a player going to press the clock knocks over a piece in the same movement and cannot stop themselves from pressing the clock. It has also been known for pieces to fall after the clock has been pressed.
As in all situations not exactly cover by the Laws the Preface to the Laws comes into consideration.