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+--- Thread: Eligibility Votes - March 2022 (/thread-2143.html)
Eligibility Votes - March 2022 - Douglas Bryson - 18-03-2022
https://www.chessscotland.com/news-post/eligibility-vote-march-2022/
(Voting links will be added to the above news post)
March 2022: Chess Scotland would like members to vote on two motions related to player eligibility. The two motions are to be considered separately.
An Eligibility Working Party (EWP) was set up after the 2019 AGM and over four months from early November 2019 to mid February 2020 examined the rules and procedures related to eligibility for Championship titles and International representation. The covid pandemic and ongoing restrictions prevented an earlier presentation of the proposals.
Vote on Motion 1 to amend the CS Constitution:
Vote on Motion 2 to establish rights of GM Matthew Turner:
Voting links will be added shortly. All current members of Chess Scotland are entitled to cast a vote on either or both motions. The closing date will be announced when voting goes live.
***
Background documents to explain the issues. Any reference in the documents to Eligibility as already in the Constitution will be amended if the vote is not passed. However the details of the policy proposals will still be enacted but with the Eligibility rules outwith the Constitution.
CS Constitution
Eligibility proposals details (pdf)
EWP discussions (pdf)
Selection Operating Procedures (pdf)
FIDE ID Operating Procedure (pdf)
FIDE ID application Form (doc)
FAQ guide (pdf)
*****
Motion 1:
- Proposal to amend the Chess Scotland Constitution
Seconded by Jim Webster, (President of Chess Scotland)
The Chess Scotland Constitution shall be amended to include the following new section 16:
- Eligibility
- Eligibility for National Individual Championship Titles
- International representation in official FIDE and ECU competitions in a Scotland national team or as a Scotland player in an international individual event.
16.2 There are three eligibility considerations as follows: -
16.2.1 Was the player born in Scotland?
16.2.2 Was either of the player's parents born in Scotland?
16.2.3 Has the player been resident in Scotland for at least two years* immediately prior to the date of receipt of an application to Chess Scotland for an initial FIDE registration or a transfer to Scotland?
(*This period is one year for a junior under the age of 18 at the time of receipt of the application.)
16.3 A positive response to any one of the above three questions would mean that the player is eligible subject to the following provision.
16.3.1 National Individual Championship Titles and International Representation
Players must be SCO registered with FIDE to be eligible for National Individual Championship titles or to represent Scotland in international competition. To be SCO registered a player must satisfy one of the three eligibility criteria as in 16.2 above.
If members vote Yes then the provisions of the motion will be included in the CS Constitution. If
members vote No (or not by the required Yes majority) then the provisions of the motion will be
enacted but will not be in the CS Constitution.
*****
Motion 2:
- Proposal to establish the rights of GM Matthew Turner
Seconded by Alistair Maxwell, (Rules Director of Chess Scotland)
This vote confirms that the full rights normally associated with a SCO registration apply to Matthew Turner.
*****
GM Matthew Turner: The EWP propose that members vote to provide clarification on the future rights of GM Matthew Turner to Championship titles and International representation. Matthew was one of the 2019 co-winners of the title and a summary of the issues surrounding his current Scotland status is given below.
GM Matthew Turner (MT) is currently the highest rated active player with a SCO registration but has never represented Scotland in an international competition. In 2019 he took outright first place in the Scottish Championship which was later adjusted to a joint title win after his title rights were challenged.
This vote is being conducted with the permission of MT.
If members vote Yes they agree with the proposal then Matthew Turner will then have the same rights as any other SCO badged player from the date of the outcome of this vote.
If members vote No they disagree then Matthew Turner would retain his Scotland registration but would only qualify for full SCO rights if he completed a two year period of residency.
RE: Eligibility Votes - March 2022 - hamish olson - 18-03-2022
Slightly unclear on what exactly this means :
"This vote confirms that the full rights normally associated with a SCO registration apply to Matthew Turner."
Does this mean eligible to win Scottish championships? And represent Scotland?
Perhaps the wording of the motion could be made (even) simpler for people like me
On another note could someone clarify what the case is for Matthew to be allowed to represent Scotland etc.
Is there a family connection or similar?
My understanding (based on hazy memories of discussions at the time that may or may not be correct) was that the reason he got SCO registration was simply to allow him to avoid the compulsory ECF membership rules, and that this was granted as a thank you for all the help he provided at the Glorney coaching (for which I am grateful - was very helpful for me as a junior).
I do not recall any intent at the time for him to represent us internationally or become Scottish champion and don't understand what the case is for him to be eligible. That is just my hazy recollection though - perhaps this was discussed at the time?
I am more than willing to be persuaded - I've always got on great with Matthew, he is the only SCO registered GM I have played in Scottish classical events (I did play Keti once in London) which is something I really appreciate , and he has helped out at Glorney events benefitting lots of Scottish juniors including me.
I just haven't seen anyone make that case at all and don't really understand what that case is?
RE: Eligibility Votes - March 2022 - Douglas Bryson - 18-03-2022
Full rights means eligible to win Championship titles and to represent Scotland internationally.
The history of the issue is described in the background notes to the 2nd motion. https://www.chessscotland.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/Eligibility_motions_February_2022.pdf
The 2019 Championship resulted in a share of the title by players with different points totals as a result of challenge to the result based on disagreement on rule interpretation. This is not a situation we would want to repeat.
If members vote Yes they agree with the proposal then Matthew Turner will then have the same rights as any other SCO badged player from the date of the outcome of this vote.
If members vote No they disagree then Matthew Turner would retain his Scotland registration but would only qualify for full SCO rights if he completed a two year period of residency.
RE: Eligibility Votes - March 2022 - hamish olson - 18-03-2022
Thanks for clarifying. I did open that document but must have not noticed the bottom page.
RE: Eligibility Votes - March 2022 - amuir - 20-03-2022
Regarding the two motions.
Motion 1 : In the past people have agreed the 3 criteria : birth/parents/residency and not grandparent
Motion 2: Matthew Turner does not meet any of above 3 criteria.
My previous thoughts were:
To stick with the 3 criteria and not raise it to 4.
MT would take the place of another person who has met more criteria in winning Scottish Championship/team selection.
MT should have a 'one-off' chance to play for Scotland in recognition of his services but not a regular place in the team.
I am open to views.
RE: Eligibility Votes - March 2022 - Andy Howie - 21-03-2022
The 4th one is actually needed or under FIDE regulations they simply cannot play....
RE: Eligibility Votes - March 2022 - hamish olson - 23-03-2022
(20-03-2022, 06:18 AM)amuir Wrote: Regarding the two motions.I respect the attempt at a compromise, but I think this would just set a precedent and effectively be the same as giving Matthew a regular place on the team.
Motion 1 : In the past people have agreed the 3 criteria : birth/parents/residency and not grandparent
Motion 2: Matthew Turner does not meet any of above 3 criteria.
My previous thoughts were:
To stick with the 3 criteria and not raise it to 4.
MT would take the place of another person who has met more criteria in winning Scottish Championship/team selection.
MT should have a 'one-off' chance to play for Scotland in recognition of his services but not a regular place in the team.
I am open to views.
There might just be another motion in a couple of years saying he's represented Scotland once already, and it would be hard to argue with that.
On another note, does the 2 year residency include students and other non-permanent residency?
I don't remember exactly where but I'm sure I've seen a rule somewhere about this not counting in the past.
It would be good to clarify this one way or another before it gets put into the constitution.
RE: Eligibility Votes - March 2022 - Douglas Bryson - 23-03-2022
>>>Does the 2 year residency include students and other non-permanent residency?
I don't remember exactly where but I'm sure I've seen a rule somewhere about this not counting in the past.
It would be good to clarify this one way or another before it gets put into the constitution.
Yes - anyone here at least two years is considered eligible (1 year U18s). This is how CS FIDE ID allocation has been operating for several years.
We provide a warning that any resident here on a temporary basis should consider that they may incur transfer fees if they return to their "home" federation. See sections 5 and 6.
https://www.chessscotland.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/FIDE_ID_OP_Feb_2022.pdf
5. Transfer Fees
If a player wishes to transfer away from Scotland to a different federation, they should be aware that FIDE will impose an administration fee. The current (Jan 2022) minimum fee is 50 euros with significantly higher costs for strong titled players. If a player is eligible for more than one federation, they should consider the potential cost of changing later to a different federation before they request an initial Scotland registration. Players wishing to transfer to Scotland should contact the Chess Scotland International Rating Officer for advice.
6. Temporary residents
The provisions on residency are intended to apply to those who are normally resident in Scotland rather than those who are only here on a temporary basis. In addition to the section on possible fees associated with changing federation it should also be considered that the rules of a domestic competition in a player’s normal country of residence may require a FIDE registration transfer to the home country. So this may create problems for a player if they have already been allocated a SCO registration.
(The warning about students was used in Scottish Championship rules prior to the 2016 rule change to all winners had in future to be SCO registered. Since non-Scots who were resident were permitted to win the title in 2016 and earlier this was restricted to players who were "ordinarily resident" - and therefore not students.)
***
There was disagreement among the EWP on the longevity of FIDE IDs if a person allocated an initial Scotland FIDE ID based only on residency later chose to leave Scotland. (Almost 17% of Scotland residents were not born here according to the 2011 census - a figure that will be updated after the current census).
The issue is discussed in the "longevity" section on pages 2 and 3 of the EWP topics https://www.chessscotland.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/EWP_Topics.pdf
RE: Eligibility Votes - March 2022 - Willie Rutherford - 23-03-2022
I don't know MT and I won't be troubling the selectors or engravers.
Apologies if I missed it, but what is the reason for proposing that an exception should be made for MT?
It may be that he is an all round good guy who deserves this as recognition for his services to chess in Scotland?
But when no reason is actually stated it seems, to me, pretty hard to agree that an exception is justified.
RE: Eligibility Votes - March 2022 - amuir - 24-03-2022
I would like to submit Motion 3 as compromise solution . Would anyone care to second it ?
Motion 3:
Proposal to recognize the services of GM Matthew Turner to Chess Scotland
" Matthew Turner shall be entitled to represent Scotland in a single international tournament of his choosing up to 31 December 2027. After this representation has taken place Matthew Turner shall not be entitled to represent Scotland again unless he meets the residency requirements".
I support Motion 1 as it clarifies the three methods of eligibility.
I do not support Motion 2 as it would mean Matthew taking the place of a Scottish-born person in the team for an extended period, possibly ten years.