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Council meeting??? - Ianbrownlee - 29-08-2024
I'm surprised there is now going to be a council meeting as late as October 1st I thought there should have been one no later than the beginning of August, and ideally no later than May to facilitate discussing the new fixture fees as they are determined by council
Personally I think discussing council matters well into the new season is much too late, but better than no Council meeting at all.
Since I am no longer on council, am I allowed to attend and/or participate. I also have a few pertinent points but that will be at the AGM. I am also curious what is coming up at the council meeting, which I will find particularly interesting, including input from council members on several matters.
RE: Council meeting??? - Ianbrownlee - 01-09-2024
I would also ask the executive committee if there are any issues outstanding regarding any matters, for example the ongoing issues at the Olympiad accommodation which Andy Burnett has commented on elsewhere and whether there is an increased financial burden on Chess Scotland
RE: Council meeting??? - Alex McFarlane - 01-09-2024
Ian, I am always happy to answer questions from members. I'm sure all members of the Management Board are the same.
Whenever you have an ongoing programme, by definition, there will always be outstanding matters. I would be worried if there weren't. The Olympiad has been more of a problem area this year than in the past.
With regard to "Since I am no longer on council, am I allowed to attend and/or participate." On the assumption that this is a question, the current Constitution seems to be quiet on the matter. However:
5.4. At Council, Management Board or Executive Committee meetings, voting is restricted to members of COUNCIL or the relevant Board or Committee and each member shall have only one vote unless under circumstances defined within the appropriate Operating Procedures.
would seem to imply that members and invited guests can attend, though the Constitution does not provide for their participation.
Operating Procedure 4 does not really clarify the matter.
The Chess Scotland Constitution can be interpreted that all meetings (which includes Council
meetings) are only open to members of CS. This may create difficulties where outside bodies
provide representatives to Council.
This Operating Procedure thereby defines that Council members who hold Official positions or
are elected at the AGM (or SGM) as an Individual member must be fully paid-up members (or
Life Members) of Chess Scotland AND retain that status for their tenure on Council.
For members who are Club Representatives, League Representatives, and Affiliation
Representatives it is hoped that those selected will be members of Chess Scotland, but this is not
mandatory. If a representative is not a member, then Council reserves the right to request the
Club, League, or Affiliate to select an alternative candidate (who also does not have to be a
Chess Scotland member).
I hope that answers your comment.
I would also point out that the business of the AGM is restricted to agenda items only.
Alex
RE: Council meeting??? - Jim Webster - 01-09-2024
(01-09-2024, 12:18 PM)Alex McFarlane Wrote: Ian, I am always happy to answer questions from members. I'm sure all members of the Management Board are the same.
Whenever you have an ongoing programme, by definition, there will always be outstanding matters. I would be worried if there weren't. The Olympiad has been more of a problem area this year than in the past.
With regard to "Since I am no longer on council, am I allowed to attend and/or participate." On the assumption that this is a question, the current Constitution seems to be quiet on the matter. However:
5.4. At Council, Management Board or Executive Committee meetings, voting is restricted to members of COUNCIL or the relevant Board or Committee and each member shall have only one vote unless under circumstances defined within the appropriate Operating Procedures.
would seem to imply that members and invited guests can attend, though the Constitution does not provide for their participation.
Operating Procedure 4 does not really clarify the matter.
The Chess Scotland Constitution can be interpreted that all meetings (which includes Council
meetings) are only open to members of CS. This may create difficulties where outside bodies
provide representatives to Council.
This Operating Procedure thereby defines that Council members who hold Official positions or
are elected at the AGM (or SGM) as an Individual member must be fully paid-up members (or
Life Members) of Chess Scotland AND retain that status for their tenure on Council.
For members who are Club Representatives, League Representatives, and Affiliation
Representatives it is hoped that those selected will be members of Chess Scotland, but this is not
mandatory. If a representative is not a member, then Council reserves the right to request the
Club, League, or Affiliate to select an alternative candidate (who also does not have to be a
Chess Scotland member).
I hope that answers your comment.
I would also point out that the business of the AGM is restricted to agenda items only.
Alex
Alex, extract below is indeed accurate
5.4. At Council, Management Board or Executive Committee meetings, voting is restricted to members of COUNCIL, or the relevant Board or Committee and each member shall have only one vote unless under circumstances defined within the appropriate Operating Procedures.
would seem to imply that members and invited guests can attend, though the Constitution does not provide for their participation.
Requiring "invited guest(s)" who are that non-members implies that they can be asked to participate in the proceedings but not permitted to vote. They are solely there to offer expert opinions relative to a specific issue/topic only.
Another quote is also indeed accurate
"The Chess Scotland Constitution can be interpreted that all meetings (which includes Council meetings) are only open to members of CS. This may create difficulties where outside bodies"
However, the key definition is "members."
Where you define "outside bodies" but this can only apply if a body delegate is not an individual member of Chess Scotland. All members have the right to observe Council proceedings.
Of course, observers cannot take part in the discussions unless invited by the Chair to do so. I agree that are they not allowed to vote on any issue.
There have indeed been many earlier occasions where observers have been present, but admittedly not since COVID caused circumstances to change.
Transparency is a buzz word that has been used in recent times and allowing members the right to observe Council proceedings is a case in point.
After all we have nothing to hide from the membership.
Jim
RE: Council meeting??? - Ianbrownlee - 01-09-2024
Jim Webster wrote
"Transparency is a buzz word that has been used in recent times and allowing members the right to observe Council proceedings is a case in point. "
agreed Jim but in practice Transparency doesnt happen time and time again. Without regular updates of Executive Committee, Management Board and general committee meetings transparency isnt happening unless the statutory meeting as required by constitution and operating procedures arent taking place. Since I was removed from the Charity investigation committee I am unaware or any developments or meetings. There was also a mention of looking into compulsory membership which again there is no mention of progress etc etc etc as a certain King of Siam used to say. This is why I am keen to hear what council is going to say about all this therefore I will attend council but will not participate as advised unless I am voted in at council of course at the AGM. I will probably request to make a statement at the AGM, do I have to make a motion to facilitate this
RE: Council meeting??? - Jim Webster - 02-09-2024
Quote:Quote – Alex McFarlaneI wish to ask the following in response to Alex's statement above
“I am always happy to answer questions from members. I'm sure all members of the Management Board are the same.”
I must first make it clear that I am posting this as a longstanding individual member of Chess Scotland and not as a Club Secretary or member of Council.
During the 2023 AGM, in response to a question by an attendee, you were said that “we are bound by what is in the Constitution”
You also quote extracts from the Council Operating Procedure (section 4), and I therefore refer to the following additional extract(s)
Quote:10. Frequency of Council Meetings
The Annual General Meeting held in May 2022 has approved that Council must hold a minimum of TWO Council Meetings each year. The recommendation was that these meetings be held approximately 3-4 months before and after each AGM (i.e. in March/April and August/September under current arrangements).
Can I therefore ask
1. Why was there no meeting of Council called earlier in the year to satisfy this requirement, as approved by the 2022 AGM? Are AGM decisions not equally as binding as the Constitution?
2. Why do these meetings do not satisfy the recommendation that meeting be held as stated in the Operation Procedure to following, as requested, before and after each AGM?
This leads me to another query regarding the adherence of the Constitution referred to above
Quote:14.3. All General, Council, Board and Executive Council Meetings shall be recorded as draft minutes.
14.3.1. Following approval by the appropriate Council, Board or Executive Committee meeting the minutes will be published within 4 weeks of the date of the meeting. It shall be deemed sufficient to publish the approved minutes on the Chess Scotland internet site.
3. Why have the requirements of the publication of minutes not been applied as mandated by the Constitution?
4. Due to the excessively late publication of the minutes the AGM was not made aware of decisions and reports to the AGM Membership. Is there a reason for this?
5. Is there a rationale for not providing such minutes in a timely fashion and giving members such time as necessary to make an informed decisions of before any publication of the AGM Agenda.?
6. Is it not that case that publication of minutes after the AGM agenda gives no recourse to members being permitted to raise any issue with decisions since only Agenda items are permitted at the AGM?
7. In the light of these examples can we be assured that the October Council meeting minutes will be published before the submission date of Agenda items for consideration by the Executive members in accordance with the Constitution and allow sufficient time for the minutes to be examined by members?
Quote:12.7 Any proposals for consideration at the AGM must be received by the Executive Director in writing (including e-mail) at least three weeks before the meeting
Let me give a few examples of the publication of minutes by the Chess Scotland officialdom
Published 3 July 2024
* January Executive Committee Meeting (26.01.2024) - 6 months late
Published 10 December 2024
* October Executive Committee Meeting (21.10.23) – 7 weeks late
* September Council Meeting (30.09.23) – 11 weeks late
* September Management Board Meeting (25.09.23) – 12 weeks late
There are a considerable number of similar instances of late publication of minutes throughout 2023 but that can be for another day.
RE: Council meeting??? - Alex McFarlane - 02-09-2024
Jim, I thank you for your questions.
With regard to the lateness of minutes and meetings, while I accept that this has been a problem for many years, it should be noted that this has been less of a problem in the current administration.
You are also aware that two of the Exec have had serious health issues which has not helped the situation
That last sentence seems to answer 5 or 6 of your questions.
Can I also point out that we are having the required meetings, though the recommended time scale may not have been met. Is this really a significant deterioration from before my time in office?
Modern technology allows for many informal meetings between those involved in sub-sections of the full committee. As long as those outcomes are reported at formal meetings this seems a much better way of conducting CS business.
Obviously, the membership needs to be informed but I feel quite confident that they prefer to know that the work is on-going rather than being delayed to hold a meeting.
RE: Council meeting??? - Ianbrownlee - 02-09-2024
Alex
can I pick up on the lack of transparency which appears to have also been a criticism of the previous administration even though we ensured regular management board and Executive Committee Meetings and also ensured minutes were posted on the CS website, so I feel your comments are perhaps unfair. We also ensured that the Management Board were kept up to speed as well.
I am of the opinion that the previous administration that I know you keep referring to, kept within the constitution and the procedures thereof, even though we had to deal with the consequences of operating with and dealing with Covid. As a previous member of the Management Board as Championship Director you are aware of those challenges we had to deal with , and dealt effectively
Yes there have been challenges, its how we deal with them that matters as again you well know.
RE: Council meeting??? - Alex McFarlane - 02-09-2024
Ian,
I don't want to turn this into a public slanging match and I am perfectly happy to field complaints from members.
However, it is very annoying that the previous administration failed to actually hold an AGM one year, the previous Chair was in office for 7 years despite the constitution giving a maximum of 6 and, in addition you are very well aware of the number of policy documents which were not reviewed by the stated dates and had to be updated. Many of those were not simply changing a word here or there. It was a significant task.
I could go on, but I think I will leave it there other than to repeat that members are entitled to ask questions and make complaints. But it is annoying when the majority of the complaints come from an administration which was, arguably, worse than the one being complained about.
I would also point out that doing your dirty washing in public does not help in obtaining sponsorship.
RE: Council meeting??? - Ianbrownlee - 03-09-2024
Alex
the reason the AGM wasnt held is simple- Covid and the executive director decided he couldnt call an online one at the time due to security concerns . I personally argued there should be one and I was outvoted. That is the fact. The reason the previous President was in place for seven years was for two reasons 1. the new six year limit didn't apply to the current President as he was voted in under the old constitution and also the aforesaid Covid. Any meeting we did have was minuted and posted.
Since you mentioned dirty washing, I'll ask certain questions
1. Why was I removed as forum moderator and not even informed until I found out
2. Why was I blocked from the CS website and it took Andrew McHarg to unblock me when I complained. I know how it was done by the way
3. Why was I removed from the charity Feasibility committee and also not informed
I think you'll find the previous administration as you call it functioned pretty well. We also had health challenges and we didn't let that impede our work.
On the subject of the council meeting I am assuming you have emailled council and asked for submissions for the agenda (within 30 days) or have you?