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+--- Thread: FIDE All Play All Gradings (/thread-366.html)
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FIDE All Play All Gradings - Mike Scott - 23-08-2012
Hi,
A question regarding all play alls. Based on experience with FIDE rated E2E4 events one of their attractions for unrated players is that they are all guaranteed to get a grading. My understanding is somewhere between vague and nil but I believe that the FIDE grading rules are different for APA compared to your usual swiss. Can you confirm and clarify?
One difference seems to be that ungraded players are assigned a start grade so that unlike in a swiss results against ungraded players do count for grading purposes. This does seem fair in most instances but am not sure why doing this is more valid in an APA than in a swiss?
What are the CS grading rules for APA - are they the same?
Re: FIDE All Play All Gradings - Andy Howie - 23-08-2012
APA are graded exactly the same way as all other events are
Re: FIDE All Play All Gradings - Mike Scott - 23-08-2012
Hi Andy
I assume that you refer to CS all play all?
Re: FIDE All Play All Gradings - Andy Howie - 24-08-2012
Yes, thats what you asked? FIDE come directly from FIDE
Re: FIDE All Play All Gradings - Mike Scott - 24-08-2012
Yes that was part of the question but the main point was about the fact that FIDE appears to grade APA events differently than SWISS and was wondering DB could confirm this. It just struck me as odd that in these FIDE events FIDE ungraded players are assigned grades based I assume on their performance that weekend in contrast to the graded players grade. These grade estimates are then also used by CS for grading purposes. If it had been a SWISS the results would have been ignored.
I would think that actually this approach (assigning grades) is probably fairer than simply disregarding the result but it seems like an anomaly.
Re: FIDE All Play All Gradings - Andy Howie - 25-08-2012
Dougie receives the grading data from FIDE and it is imported into the grading program. If it is reflecting this then it is because that is what is in the data that FIDE are giving us
Re: FIDE All Play All Gradings - Mike Scott - 25-08-2012
Hi Andy
You have gotten the wrong of the stick :-)
Am not asking about, or questioning, the procedure of importing FIDE graded events into the CS system: rather I was asking if Dougie can confirm that the FIDE APA events are graded differently by FIDE in that players without a grade prior to the event are assigned a start grade, based on their performance in the event. I am unsure why this is acceptable in APAs and not in SWISS events. I doubt if it makes a big impact it just seems strange thats all.
Re: FIDE All Play All Gradings - Andy Howie - 31-08-2012
Mike
Quote:What are the CS grading rules for APA - are they the same?
Which is why I answered about CS
Re: FIDE All Play All Gradings - Mike Scott - 31-08-2012
Not sure why you have posted this again as I had already acknowledged your reply as answering part of my post - see my post 24th Aug. - but I then went on to confirm that the main point of my post was to try and have confirmed that my understanding of how FIDE grades APA was correct, and if our chief grader thought that the FIDE approach was valid.
Even in Swiss events It does seem a tad unfair when players at the Euros or Worlds for example battle so hard and get wins against ungraded but strong players and get no credit (grading wise) from them [it obvious cuts both ways in terms of losses to ungraded players not counting either]. If the ungraded players play enough games against graded opponents to earn a partial grade it seems less of a distortion to use that partial grade than to simply ignore the results completely.
Re: FIDE All Play All Gradings - Andy Howie - 31-08-2012
You are referring of course to
8.52
If the opponent is unrated, then the rating is determined at the end of the event. This applies only to round-robin tournaments. In the Swiss tournaments the games against unrated opponents are not rated
Simple answer for this is all players will play the ungraded player so they will have a consistent grade at the end of the apa with respect to the players in it. For a swiss, the final grade would be determined by whom they would get in the draw.
Is it unfair? I can see it both is and isn´t