Tromso Olympiad 2014

[Alex McFarlane]

I see a few comments have been made on the selectors. Without actually looking up who they are I assume that, as in the past, they could be regarded as automatic choices.

In Scotland we have a limited number of people willing to do things. Forming a selection panel is not easy. Ideally you do not want people who are likely to be considered but when you look at those in contention for places in the European team then we have to go quite a way down the grading list before we would come to suitable candidates for a selection committee.

I think it is the lesser of two evils therefore to have one or two strong players whose inclusion is near certain on the committee than to go down to below 2000 for selectors.

[amuir]

I am going to take another break from the noticeboard for a while. I shall be back in May.
To my great regret I seem to attract controversy on the noticeboard on any topic.
Again I reiterate that I am open to discuss anything in person, by email or phone.
I shall be going to the Olympiad and promise to do my best.
Goodbye.

[andyburnett]

I am going to take another break from the noticeboard for a while. I shall be back in May.
To my great regret I seem to attract controversy on the noticeboard on any topic.
Again I reiterate that I am open to discuss anything in person, by email or phone.
I shall be going to the Olympiad and promise to do my best.
Goodbye.

The main reason you attract controversy Andy is your inability (or reluctance) to answer important questions openly and honestly.

Add to this your inability (or reluctance) to take advice, or accept any form of criticism (publicly on this forum or privately via e-mail, whether from CS members like myself or team members) and it amounts to a sad situation whereby you use your role within CS to do as you please, very often for your own benefit. If it were truly to your 'great regret' you would do something about this.

When you return in May you might be willing or able to answer some of the questions - perfectly reasonable questions - which you have been asked.

[JRedpath]

I see they Coulw comments have been made on the selectors. Without actually looking up who they are I assume that, as in the past, they could be regarded as automatic choices.

In Scotland we have a limited number of people willing to do things. Forming a selection panel is not easy. Ideally you do not want people who are likely to be considered but when you look at those in contention for places in the European team then we have to go quite a way down the grading list before we would come to suitable candidates for a selection committee.

I think it is the lesser of two evils therefore to have one or two strong players whose inclusion is near certain on the committee than to go down to below 2000 for selectors.

I don't really think the fact they could be regarded as automatic is a reason for them to be on selection panel, it is just not morally right. You don't get the best footballers selecting themselves for the national side or in any other sport!

You also don't need strong players on the selection panel, anyone is capable of looking at results, activity etc and making an informed decision on who deserves a place.

Like it or not having players in contention on the panel leads to bias, intended or not. Ideally the panel should be completely independent with no personal links to those in contention.

[andyburnett]

Rather than worrying about how the captain is selected what about the whole selection procedure?

It cannot be right that players in the team are also selectors! In other words selecting themselves.

Debating the entire selection procedure might have its place Joe, but rather than trying to muddy the waters or distract from the issue at hand right now, why don't you speak to Andy M and ask him to be open and honest about what he has done/is doing? If everyone, or even a majority supported his decisions we wouldn't even be discussing this just now, would we?

Here we have someone doing a job no-one else wants, but out of the woodwork comes people wanting to do things differently and better. Stand for election at the AGM then.
I can accept that some of this thread is about accountability, but is this really the time to create tension in the Olympiad squad?

Jim, just because someone is the only person who stands for a role doesn't mean that they are unaccountable for their actions or has carte blanche to do as they please.
This thread is almost entirely about accountability - and who do you think created the tension in the Olympiad squad?
There is nothing 'personal' about my disagreement with Andy M, just as I imagine there is nothing personal about the majority of the Scotland squads disagreement with and dismay at Andy M's actions.

I do have to say I am saddened by some of the responses posted here - not because they disagree with my own opinions (I'm used to that!) but simply because they do not even attempt to address the most basic questions which myself and other CS members have asked.

[andyburnett]

I see they Coulw comments have been made on the selectors. Without actually looking up who they are I assume that, as in the past, they could be regarded as automatic choices.

In Scotland we have a limited number of people willing to do things. Forming a selection panel is not easy. Ideally you do not want people who are likely to be considered but when you look at those in contention for places in the European team then we have to go quite a way down the grading list before we would come to suitable candidates for a selection committee.

I think it is the lesser of two evils therefore to have one or two strong players whose inclusion is near certain on the committee than to go down to below 2000 for selectors.

I don't really think the fact they could be regarded as automatic is a reason for them to be on selection panel, it is just not morally right. You don't get the best footballers selecting themselves for the national side or in any other sport!

You also don't need strong players on the selection panel, anyone is capable of looking at results, activity etc and making an informed decision on who deserves a place.

Like it or not having players in contention on the panel leads to bias, intended or not. Ideally the panel should be completely independent with no personal links to those in contention.

Perhaps so, but this year's selection has been done differently apparently as Elaine pointed out...

Joe makes a good point about the selection process as a whole - there is clearly a potential conflict of interest in having some of the strongest Scottish players on the selection committee. This was clearly why John Shaw abstained from involvement in the selection of the olympiad team. In my opinion this was the right thing to do. On the other hand the captaincy of the olympiad open team was unilaterally decided by Andy M - who has insisted on going himself despite serious concerns being raised by multiple selected members of the team.

[JRedpath]

Well I think there is a lot more to this issue than most people here know about and probably not my place to say.

The last I heard the selectors were all players with a realistic chance of making the team, one of which I believe was selected. So nothing has really changed even if John Shaw was not on the panel!

[robin moore]

I am becoming increasingly concerned about the financial implications of this situation. As we all know money is extremely tight in the CS world at the moment. The ladies team was announced on the 8th of January. Here we are at nearly the end of March and as far as I can make out three Open team places have still to be filled.

If we are mostly using the Edinburgh-Oslo-Tromso route for travel, the price of that last return leg (if there are any seats still available) could go nuts the nearer we get to the event.

[andyburnett]

Well I think there is a lot more to this issue than most people here know about and probably not my place to say.

The last I heard the selectors were all players with a realistic chance of making the team, one of which I believe was selected. So nothing has really changed even if John Shaw was not on the panel!

Joe, what ARE you talking about here?

You are privy to all the e-mail correspondence regarding selection issues (captain and players) because Andy Muir saw fit to include you in this way in order to support his self-selection as captain.

At no point has there been any issue raised relating to the selection panel's ability to choose the actual team (apart from Andy M's own decision to disallow one player, and in the process have that player block him from future correspondence as he was extremely offended by Andy's attitude).

Instead of continuing to blow this smokescreen, perhaps you could tell us all what you think of Andy's 'unilateral decision' to choose himself?

[David Deary]

I have been reluctant to post on this as I'm clearly not privy to the facts or half-truths as I see flying around this thread.

Can anyone confirm or deny the preference from the players was to appoint a 'foreign' GM as Captain? someone who has made no contribution to scottish chess. I have to say, when finances are as tight as they are, our scarce resources should be focussed on those who actually make a contribution to scottish chess and not on paying for friends of players on our Olympiad team to go on a jolly paid for by CS! [-x

I appreciate the above may be controversial and will retract it if it is incorrect as I said there is so much incorrect information flying around this thread already and I don't wish to add to it.

Andy M maybe shouldn't have appointed himself as Captain, however, I think Joe makes a reasonable point that top players shouldn't be appointing themselves either! My view is that International chess has been a bit of a closed shop for too long and a bit of transparency and accountability needs thrown on this whole process. I think this needs looked at either by the Constitutional working party as suggested by Jim or CS Council needs to look at the whole process in its entirety.

I think Andy M deserves some credit to counter his “dictatorial” appointment as Captain as he has tried to keep costs down and had to proactively chase the players to book flights. I think this should be considered before the man is condemned. Also, I’m no apologist for Andy M, I tried to bump him at the AGM because of his conduct last year and on that score I also think he has improved.