17-07-2013, 04:27 PM
Thanks for kind comment, Andrew M.
Hi Andy B. Lol the noticeboard rule. Were you suggesting applying it retrospectively!? =)
That final rook ending position in my post I think is probably a draw, but I’m not so sure that it’s a dead draw. If White starts with Ra1 I don’t think Black can afford the time to grab the f-pawn as the a-pawn reaches a7 tying up Black’s rook. So just to play a few obvious looking moves, I assume we’re looking at a position like this:
[pos]8/5p1k/r5pp/P7/5P2/7K/5P1P/R7 w - - 1 47[/pos]
Hamish and I were in agreement that White’s ‘mangled’ pawns should be too much of a handicap. They don’t stay mangled for long however as white can play f5. After Kg4 Black hasn’t time to fix them with f5 as he has to follow the WK’s movements over to the queenside. White can even start with f5.
After that the pawns are still split though and that bit more counterattackable. I’ve seen Houdini lose it a couple of times for Black - playing too quickly probably, but still worth White playing on. This kind of position occurs as the Kings go head to head:
[pos]8/8/r3k1pp/P7/R3KP2/8/7P/8 b - - 6 53[/pos]
From lazily watching the boo-hiss computer, it seems White might still win by getting in h5 and getting down to a good 2 v 1. On the other hand, that weak f pawn allows the late counterattack to take place much quicker than could happen if W had say, another pawn on g3. The computer’s endless manouvers are of only limited help so it’s quite hard to get chapter and verse - I’ve been more interested in seeing how Botvinnik managed to draw when his opponent had healthy pawns! Though in that game the passed pawn was a bit further back which helps, and his opponent made a couple of errors.
Cheers
Hi Andy B. Lol the noticeboard rule. Were you suggesting applying it retrospectively!? =)
That final rook ending position in my post I think is probably a draw, but I’m not so sure that it’s a dead draw. If White starts with Ra1 I don’t think Black can afford the time to grab the f-pawn as the a-pawn reaches a7 tying up Black’s rook. So just to play a few obvious looking moves, I assume we’re looking at a position like this:
[pos]8/5p1k/r5pp/P7/5P2/7K/5P1P/R7 w - - 1 47[/pos]
Hamish and I were in agreement that White’s ‘mangled’ pawns should be too much of a handicap. They don’t stay mangled for long however as white can play f5. After Kg4 Black hasn’t time to fix them with f5 as he has to follow the WK’s movements over to the queenside. White can even start with f5.
After that the pawns are still split though and that bit more counterattackable. I’ve seen Houdini lose it a couple of times for Black - playing too quickly probably, but still worth White playing on. This kind of position occurs as the Kings go head to head:
[pos]8/8/r3k1pp/P7/R3KP2/8/7P/8 b - - 6 53[/pos]
From lazily watching the boo-hiss computer, it seems White might still win by getting in h5 and getting down to a good 2 v 1. On the other hand, that weak f pawn allows the late counterattack to take place much quicker than could happen if W had say, another pawn on g3. The computer’s endless manouvers are of only limited help so it’s quite hard to get chapter and verse - I’ve been more interested in seeing how Botvinnik managed to draw when his opponent had healthy pawns! Though in that game the passed pawn was a bit further back which helps, and his opponent made a couple of errors.
Cheers