Appearance fees for our best players

[David G Congalton]

Clement/Calum

So is the idea to use the British (for example) as a preparation tournament for potential World and European squad players, coaches and any other "staff"? Be they potential players etc.. for World's and European's later that year or the following year?

The one game a day format, the time controls operational at the British, the availability of round draws in advance and the consequent time available to prepare for your next opponent make British like events a little different from any regular event in Scotland, bar the Scottish.

I find both of your views insightful, along with those of Hugh and others, who have experience of playing at this level recently (and maybe not so recently in Douglas's case) and in events like the British and events abroad.

I don't think there's a big difference between what all parties are saying and the present system of selection for World's and European's. A foundation of junior international tournaments has been put in place and what is now being discussed is maybe the next building block in the Junior International system, which will allow the devlopment of our Juniors to the next level.

[Calum MacQueen]

Yeah so basically for the Worlds we have a couple of problems: our kids don't get strong games at World's time controll and money in Scottish chess. This is an attempt to solve both those issues to an extent by giving the squad good quality games and many coaches to go over their games with. I know that Barbican at the 4NCL have a junior team and get their senior players to give them a coaching session on the Saturday and I don't see why we can't extend this to a longer period of time.

[David G Congalton]

I think 4NCL would be a fantastic idea and well worth considering. Entering a team in the Southern section rather than the Northern section, would, I believe, be better from the point of view that there may be more potential coaches, from our side of the border, taking part in the Southern section.

Costs would be similar, I think. Which brings us back to money in Scottish Chess and sort of where this thread started.

I have some ideas (some a bit abstract) on how we could address many of the issues concerning funding and awareness of the game. Unfortunately, I haven’t found an instant fix just yet but I’m optimistic that more money can be brought in and events such as the European Senior Team Championships and perhaps a 4NCL junior team or British Championship Squad could be supported without impacting (too much) on the present CS budget, as it stands.

I would actively encourage the posting of any fundraising, marketing, support ideas on the thread I started on the subject. Let your imagination flow and don’t feel there are boundaries or limits to what can be suggested or achieved (within the law of course). Take the example of the women of the Women’s Institute; the calendar girls. How off the wall and mad was that idea? I wonder how much it actually made.

I am certainly not suggesting our senior team do a 2012 version and I can’t see a version featuring the CS executive or CS arbiters selling out. Besides who would do what month. The point is, well you get the point don’t you?

I'm certainly not afraid of giving things a try and enjoy a challenge. If it doesn't work, it's experience and if it does, then it's job done, what's next?

[robin moore]

One thing we must try and ensure in 2012 is that if possible we take full advantage of all free/assisted places at the three majors, namely the EU, the Euroyouth and the World Youth. We can't be seen to be crying at our lack of funding, yet not taking up every freebie-ish place at these events. Look at the present girls U8 and U10 grading list. We get a free place effectively at the EuroYouth and Worldyouth. Should we send anyone if they had to go tomorrow? We need to think long term here and that means filling free places next year and every year, which hopefully will generate interest and competition for places. I understand that many of you will say "what's the point of sending a young inexperienced girl just for her to be totally demoralised and give up the game?". We need to address this now and I mean right now, not in 5 years time when we don't have any girls of international standard at all. Look at the J16,J15 girl grading lists. It's not difficult to work out who is going to be offered a place. We have four girls at J11 I am really pleased about. If we could achieve that each and every year that would be great.

Robin.

[David G Congalton]

I understand that many of you will say "what's the point of sending a young inexperienced girl just for her to be totally demoralised and give up the game?".

It's only free if it doesn't cost anything. In the case of sending a young, inexperienced girl, who becomes demoralised and gives up the game, then there's a cost; her interest and possibly the interest of her friends. There would also be the cost of coaching, whether that's in additional coaches to cope with the size of the squad or in the time available per student.

I agree the issue has to be addressed and we're probably thinking along the same lines of sustaining the girls interest, raising their standard through coaching and preparing them before big events by their participation in events slightly above their standard, at home.

There is certainly time to take a good few steps towards this before the EU, Euroyouth and World Youth but I would be wary of filling places just for the sake of filling them. Yes it could give opportunities to some but you have to balance the opportunity costs against that.

[David G Congalton]

For online coaching, we are going for the best we feel we have. I basically allocate students to these coaches, they give me an initial assessment of their student, then update me roughly once a month.

When this is fully set up, all juniors in the Scotland squad and fringes will have the opportunity of a top player helping them on a one-to-one basis.

How is this being funded?

[Angus McDonald]

Calum,

I'm very disappointed at your comment calling the Brazilian and Argentinian players filler players.
Why you attempt to diminish the peformance of the World Youth squad I do not know? I truly don't see the
need for it??

If it's facts you like then take a look at the map in this link.

Europe is a filler for Brazil.

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Those who travelled from Argentina to play travelled thousands of miles to play. Would you call all ungraded players at the Euroyouth filler players?? because many ungraded players come from different countries but only travel a few hundred miles to play in the Euroyouth.

It's ridiculous that I have to state this but the Brazil results compare favourably with the results from Euroyouth and World Youth results over the last number of years. I suspect that the budget for Brazil was significantly less than the budget for the Euroyouth. Singling out the World Youth performance by those who seek to be coaches of the juniors is unhelpful and quite transparent. I'm going to make no further comparisons other than to say that anybody who wants to look at the results honestly and do an objective comaparison with other similar events knows the results were reasonable. There wasn't the budget for a travelling coach to go but I'm assuming the coaches posting here reckon the juniors would have done better if a coach went. What a 50% score instead of a near 40% score? Or perhaps higher? In which case we should definitely be sending squads to these events!

I think juniors who have graduated these tournaments and can't go to them anymore themselves shouldn't make negative comments about the performance of those who can still play the events.

I think you need to be involved with the juniors or be a parent of juniors who can still play these events to understand their value. I agree with Robin that we should at the very least take up all the free accomodation places on offer. I also stand by what I said earlier. If parents are confident that their child is good enough to enjoy these tournaments and don't mind the financial cost they should consider sending their child as a 2nd or 3rd choice to at least one of these events. They are quality events and the children do learn a great deal from going to them. I'm certain that Paul and Robin will tell a parent if they think a child isn't strong enough to enjoy the event and perhaps tell them what they need to do to become strong enough. Clearly a 500 grade at under 18 as Clement mentioned isn't strong enough. It's not haggling about the price it's more about having some common sense.

[Mike Scott]

Angus,

I think juniors who have graduated these tournaments and can't go to them anymore themselves shouldn't make negative comments about the performance of those who can still play the events.

May I suggest that there is no way Clement, Calum or any other chess player would belittle other players. Period.

Personally I would take the views of experienced young players who have seen it , done it and have no political axe to grind, no ulterior motives or previous policies to defend, seriously. As they are no longer up for selection it is much easier them to make an objective arguement. As most (if not all) are involved in helping coach and develop juniors I don't think their commitment can be questioned.

I can not comment on the strength of local players at the this year's worlds but was a fact that at events in the past you did get large numbers of local players playing, some of whose strength varied considerably. At italy this included players from the area around the playing area who were not strong at all.

Can someone from the other side :U please construct an arguement about why it is a bad idea to train players, build up their experience by playing in other events, before attending the top events and then to provide more training afterwards to make sure that the lessons are built upon?

I would anticipate that in the longer term this would lead to more players traveling to play outwith Scotland and being involved in representing Scotland and doing so more successfully. The big BUT in my mind is that this would in fact require more resources - in particular support for the CS directors involved in actioning any program. As always this requires commitment from everyone - without which there is very little any IJD can achieve, no matter how hard they work themselves.

Does anyone really believe that the Turkish, Armenian or Russian players at these events are strong simply because they have played lots of Euros or Worlds?

[Andrew McHarg]

Can someone from the other side :U please construct an arguement about why it is a bad idea to train players, build up their experience by playing in other events, before attending the top events and then to provide more training afterwards to make sure that the lessons are built upon?

It's not a bad idea to train players, or for them to build up experience at other events - but when push comes to shove they should still be given their rightful place in the Euroyouth or Worldyouth teams, if they want them. Life is too short to be constantly at training and never playing in the best tournaments that you have the opportunity to play in. They aren't juniors forever; so give them these opportunities, irrespective of how relatively weak they are. They'll never know what they haven't experienced.

Has there ever been an occasion where one of the players who has attended one of these events has actually regretted going?

[Alex McFarlane]

Just before some of our younger players start blaming their parents for not sending them to a free event let's look at some of the facts.

There is no such thing as a free lunch. There are travel costs to be taken into consideration and often there is a registration fee. For Brazil I would imagine that the 'free' entry would be about £1000 in airfares. A typical registration fee and transfers is €60.

Under normal circumstances there would need to be a contribution towards Trainers. Another consideration is the number of players per trainer. If we say that the maximum ratio is 8 players -1 trainer then the ideal squad number is 8, 16 or 24. But what if only 10 want to go? Do you send 1 coach and have worse preparation or do you still send 2 coaches and charge everyone more? These are not simple questions to answer, especially if the extra costs mean that only 8 then choose to go (and you lose one of the better players).

It is easy to say that as many people as possible should go but the logistics and costs should always be taken into consideration. It may be that sometimes you can't send everyone for practical reasons. But then try explaining that to a parent whose child is 'rejected'.

Anyone representing Scotland must be selected to do so. How you do this and where you draw the line is not clear as previous contributions have indicated.

And in answer to Andrew McH. There was one occasion where a primary girl was selected for the Faber Cup. She gave up playing chess immediately following the event, some might say she gave up during it. She had a dreadful time. When selecting very young players maturity can be as important as ability.