Cheap DGT clocks

[Jim Webster]

I will only have internet issues for the duration of the Tournament and, by staying in a different hotel this time round may well solve the problem.

You can email me at:

president @ chessscotland.com (take out the 2 spaces!)

I'll get this address link added on the contacts page.

Please make the email Subject - DGT Clock Offer.

Thanks

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I need to make one think very clear - this is NOT a commitment to buy at this stage it is only an expression of interest.

This is simply to allow Chess Scotland to make constructive enquiries and repot back.

At that time we will seek formal orders and notify of payment terms on the offer.

[David Deary]

To that end send me an email with, No of Clocks and what model, name of club (must be a CS member club) since it is only available through Federations to FIDE.  

Hi Jim, great to know the CS President is driving this.

I believe the above should be clarified with FIDE as I think it could be argued that CS is breaching the other boundary condition - IE no profit making.

For example, for a club to qualify they must be affiliated which is anywhere between £20 to £30 per annum to CS. Could this not be construed as a quid pro quo?

Also, where an Association is affiliated and has member clubs who affiliate to said Association I don't see any reason they cant order through the Association and then through Chess Scotland.

[Jim Webster]

David,

1. Chess Scotland is NOT profit making. There is NO additional charge being added by Chess Scotland
2. Chess Scotland exists for its membership - the decision for any club to join CS simply to take advantage of this offer is their own decision.  If they decide that joining CS makes economic sense against the purchase of these clocks on the marketplace then that is a call they have to make. We are not compelling clubs, or even asking them, to join Chess Dcotland
3. This offer is via FIDE Federations and its members. All submissions for this offer are to be made via FIDE Development Commission by the National Federation.
4. This offer is, as stated, for Chess Scotland member clubs and Affiliates - it is not an "open to all" offer.
5. The  only Affiliates are the 2 Junior ones LJC and NEJCA. They will be only buying clocks for their own use, buying on behalf of a third party will not be permitted, and that will need to be accepted as a condition for Chess Scotland to process their order. If necessary will create a formal condition of sale to ALL clubs and Affiliates
6. Clubs are not Affiliates - they pay a club membership fee and can only purchase for their OWN use..

Perhaps you should let me get ALL the facts first and then announce clear specific conditions of purchase, as well as the final cost.

As I said when I made the offer this call is only an expression of interest to get a full understanding of the requirements and put reasonably accurate forward to FIDE.

I really do not like the implication of "profit making" - that is really quite unfair - we are acting in the best interest of our membership!

Neither am I going to get into a debate until I know the full facts associated with this offer through formal channels. Which is why I'm asking for "expressions of interest and possible numbers.

[David Deary]

Jim,

I would suggest you actually read my post before jumping on the defensive. I gave an example whereby I suggested it could be construed that CS was profit making. Its not a stretch to suggest as it happens its incidental compared to the reduction in clocks. I agree with you there.

Also as an FYI according to the CS Constitution an affiliate is as follows: "3.1.3. Affiliate – open to leagues, congresses, tournaments and other bodies engaged in the promotion of Chess." not only the two junior bodies you mentioned. Hence my point regarding Associations is important it shouldn't be dismissed out of hand. I think you need to check who the affliliates actually are before issuing proclamations.

I just hope CS don't make a mess of this by adding unnecessary additional hurdles. This initial response to reasonable questions coupled with the delay for a coherent approach leaves me more than a little dismayed. Shooting yourself in the foot springs to mind.

[mclarke]

I know that David Stewart has been speaking to Chess Edinburgh contacts to gauge demand - and there is demand.
LJC are looking to order 50 clocks, and while we could order the DGT1001, it'd make more sense to get a clock that we can flex into adult events...so I hope that this could happen. Perhaps, it'd be best to just copy the ECF method (which is similar to whats been done so far), but you could also put something on the front page of the website and set a deadline for expressions of interest.
Cheers,
Martin

[Jim Webster]

At the moment I am attempting to verify all the requirements of the offer, not just expressions of interest.

We are not in a position to set deadlines just yet, that depends on the communication between FIDE Dev, DGT and CS. I don't want to be making posts then adding corrections - I will wait until such time as I have as much facts about the offer as possible and as soon as I have this information I will arrange a post on front page.

For example, there is almost certainly going to be VAT of 21% applied at the country of origin (Netherlands) and P&P costs will also be added to the 15 & 20 Euro price. We are not permitted to make a profit, but nor are we going to incur costs.

For the moment, all I need is, as said earlier, is to get a ball-park figure to get the ball rolling hence the email request.

I have now received the list from Chess Edinburgh with the LJC numbers included.

[Alex McFarlane]

Under no circumstances should anyone buy a DGT 1001.  Simply, it is not fit for purpose and will be useless in another couple of years.

Any clock which does not allow increments should be avoided.

In addition, I would be very wary of a clock that does not allow you to add on penalties.  (The DGT Easy, Easy+ , 1002 and 1001. Only allow 2 minutes to be added if they are showing 18 minutes or less.)

See http://www.chessarbitersassociation.co.u...iews1.html for impartial reviews of the clocks available in UK.

[mclarke]

Alex, obviously a DGT1001 isn't for top level chess - but for the majority of primary aged chess players (i.e. beginners) they are surely sufficient? We use the DGT easy for secondary's and the top end of primary play in LJC. Obviously, if we can get DGT3000s for the ball park of a DGT1001/DGT Easy, we're keen to get the more flexible clock.

[Alex McFarlane]

Any clock which does not do increments is not fit for purpose. I strongly believe that not training children to use increments is doing them a disservice.

If the children are to progress to international level then the sooner they are used to increments the better.

Using increments also encourages learning endings as these are far more likely to occur. Simply forcing the opponent to run out of time is not an option - they have to be outplayed.

Better players do not get frustrated by losing, not to an inferior opponent so much as to the clock. How many times have you heard "I was winning but I ran out of time"? That excuse does not hold with increments.

Most importantly, a player can spend longer on a complicated position hoping that they can build up their time again when the position simplifies. With a fixed time control once you are behind on the clock you have two opponents - the player opposite and the clock.

[Jim Webster]

UPDATE: -

We now have the response from DGT and are now in the process of working out the final cost/clock.

I will email all who have submitted numbers with their respective payment details based on their emailed numbers.

Get the bank transfers ready!!!