Correct support for The Scotland Junior International Squad

[Angus McDonald]

It's a fact that a post was made which suggested our juniors weren't good enough.

Instead of you picking that up Alan you supported the poster of that remark.

and you support grading limits.

I'm stating the fact that you said nothing supportive of Ian when he was being told he wasn't good enough.

I know you think I have no right to tell you that because you think you are higher in the Chess pecking order than me but I'm telling you that I do!

[Alan Tate]

I don't recall ever discussing any junior publicly so I suppose you are right (why would I do that?). The person that brought Ian into it was you, nobody else.

Yes, other people have opinions different to your own. Deal with it.

[Andrew McHarg]

Perhaps you can explain how this comment which was contained within a post that Alan and Robin agreed with is supportive of the Juniors going to the Euroyouth.

by Patrick McGovern » Sat Aug 04, 2012 6:23 pm

For example if you are 16 and in the boys section, your grade should be say at least CS live grade 2100 level otherwise you are not going to achieve any success in the euro's or worlds

I agree with this.

This isn't how I understood this Angus. I think the word choices I have emboldened above (example and say) are indicative of it being an example suggestion of which alternatives could be considered, rather than one which should be taken out of context and therefore cause offence.

Which is, incidentally, an entirely different thing to naming an individual and suggesting they are not good enough.

[Patrick McGovern]

For example if you are 16 and in the boys section, your grade should be say at least CS live grade 2100 level otherwise you are not going to achieve any success in the euro's or worlds

It was the example I agreed with.

However I recognise that we are nowhere near that yet. We have a long way to go and I sincerely hope the junior scene gets organised, funded and supported by the chess fraternity in Scotland. I am not aiming ANY criticism against any junior players whatsoever, au contraire, i feel that we should unconditionally support and guide our juniors. I also am not making or implying any criticism against the current system or the people working within the system around junior chess.
Rant over, time to go back into the cave :\

[Patrick McGovern]

a postscript to earlier posts;

Euro youth tourney; top seeds in
Boys 8 y/o - 1890; 10 y/o - 2141; 12 y/o - 2072; 14 y/o - 2459; 16 y/o 2434 (FM); 18 y/o 2485 (IM).

Girls 8 y/o -1703; 10 y/o - 1853; 12 y/o - 2077; 14 y/o - 2088 (WFM); 16 y/o 2244 (WFM); 18 y/o 2363 (WIM)

mindboggling numbers, something for us as a nation to aspire to?

[Mike Scott]

our juniors weren't good enough.

That is a loaded accusation and one you seem always too make when anyone suggests that our juniors could do better. Having potential is simply not enough - I have no doubts that were our juniors based in certain other countries in which chess is better funded they would be stronger players and score better at worlds/juniors.

The fact is that very few players have made 50% at these events, or finished in the top half of the draw, and most pick up their points in the bottom third of the draw.

Now it could well be argued that that is good enough, and for individuals it may well represent a big personal achievement and something to be really proud of. Thats fine and I am not knocking any individuals, but we surely want to find some system that will in time raise the standards of scottish juniors as a whole over time so that in future we are sending players with an expectation of being more competitive than they are now.

Unless you are willing to face your weaknesses how can you hope to devise a plan to correct them?

[Alan Jelfs]

I have always been told that the best way to improve at chess is to play players slightly stronger than yourself. So how do we expect our young players to improve without playing in strong international tournaments?

[Andrew McHarg]

I have always been told that the best way to improve at chess is to play players slightly stronger than yourself. So how do we expect our young players to improve without playing in strong international tournaments?

Whilst I agree that it's a great experience for the juniors, and I'm glad many are given the opportunity, I don't think they need to go abroad to get tough opposition. There are quite a few tournaments in the uk that have very tough Opens.

[robin moore]

All.

If everyone will just bear with Paul and I till next year, we intend to change the junior tournament strategy completely based on tournaments that we know well from personal experience abroad,

Rbin.

[Mike Scott]

Alan Said:-

play players slightly stronger

'slightly' is the key word.