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IMarks Wrote:Quote:I noticed IM Andrew Greet changed federation last year (at a cost of 2000 Euros) from England to Scotland. When does he become eligible for selection to represent Scotland in events such as the Olympiad/Euros?
When Jacob became affiliated to SCO, he was eligible to play for us. Now that Andrew has changed to SCO, he'll be eligible. Matthew has been affiliated to SCO for some time now, but isn't eligible. I've just re-read the CS Adult Selection Policy and can't see any reason why he should be excluded. The FIDE Handbook, section 04 on Registration, Transfer & Rules of Eligibility for Player, says '1.1 A player may be registered under a Federation if he or she has citizenship, naturalization or residency in the country of that Federation'. As a UK citizen, Matthew can opt for 'Scottish' as his citizenship, so no infringement or impediment there. Voting and polls apart, what's the criterion for not selecting him? What am I missing?
I don't know Ian?
From Andy Muir above.. Quote:Council voted to retain current grandparent rule by 6 votes to 5 so Matthew Turner is still ineligible to play for Scotland.
Does this vote actually have any relevance/power?
Perhaps these federation changes are taking place all the time in Scotland, but the only ones we really hear about are those who are strong players, but not strong enough to gain a place in their 'own' country's teams at International level. Perhaps Matthew, Andrew and others can come on the forum and explain their reasoning (I believe Matthew already has but I can't find it)?
Personally I have mixed views on the subject - I hate the idea of not making people fully welcome in Scotland, and it would be great to have as strong a team as possible out in Olympiads, etc., but, as someone who still retains a glimmer of hope of reaching international cap status myself (representing your country is one of the biggest honours in any game or sport - I'm probably not the only one in this bracket within Scottish chess circles) it's another barrier in the way, one which may be simply for someone else's personal benefit rather than Scotland's! I don't know this, obviously, which is why it would be good to get others' views, particularly those who have changed federation.
P.S. Why am I so utterly scared of using incorrect grammar when I know you're involved in a discussion here Ian? 
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Squad selected after Cappelle.
Funds will be decided at council meeting on 16 march. No GM fees. I have offered to do simuls to raise funds.
Andrew Greet eligible (lives in Scotland). Matthew in unusual position of SCO but ineligible (lives in England).
Next generation is doing well eg Clement Sreeves is higher graded than I was at his age.
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IMarks Wrote:Quote: As a UK citizen, Matthew can opt for 'Scottish' as his citizenship, so no infringement or impediment there. Voting and polls apart, what's the criterion for not selecting him? What am I missing?
A Burnett Wrote:Quote:Does this vote actually have any relevance/power?
The selections issues were mentioned here.
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Votes at Council have relevance for how CS makes decisions. "COUNCIL decisions shall be binding unless reversed by a resolution of an AGM or SGM." <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://chessscotland.com/csinfo/csconstit.htm">http://chessscotland.com/csinfo/csconstit.htm</a><!-- m -->
The vote was unsatisfactory in that so few people took part. However the selection was about to happen with the selectors duty bound to use the existing selection rules (which excluded grandparent as a determinant of being eligible). It can be revisited at a future meeting - it was suggested such an issue might be determined by an email vote to extend numbers taking part.
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Quote:Andrew Greet eligible (lives in Scotland). Matthew in unusual position of SCO but ineligible (lives in England).
Andy (M) – residence is only one of the FIDE criteria. As I said, as a UK citizen, Matthew can declare himself ‘Scottish’. Is the grandparent thing just a CS ‘rule’?
Quote:P.S. Why am I so utterly scared of using incorrect grammar when I know you're involved in a discussion here Ian?
Andy (B) - I don't know!! If you think I'm a grammar fascist, you want to have a chat with Helen Milligan! [Sorry, Helen :-) ]
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Ian - CS have made up their own rules on Matthew by voting to allow SCO affiliation but not play for team.
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amuir Wrote:Ian - CS have made up their own rules on Matthew by voting to allow SCO affiliation but not play for team. CS have made up their own rules
I find those words disturbing.
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Ian, please raise issue at AGM.
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The eligibility criteria are clearly stated on the CS website.
http://www.chessscotland.com/internation...tional.htm
There are four eligibility considerations as follows: -
• Was the player born in Scotland?
• Were either or both of the player’s parents born in Scotland?
• If the player is 18 or more years old, has he/she been permanently resident in Scotland for at least two years (if a junior, that is under 18, the equivalent time is one year)?
• Has the player been previously accepted as qualifying for Scottish representation?
A positive response to any one (or more) of the above four questions would mean that the player (a) would be eligible and their name could be considered in the context of selection processes and (b) could include their name as being a Scottish player on any international list such as FIDE.
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amuir Wrote:Ian, please raise issue at AGM. Way to nip the discussion in the bud, Andy.
Perhaps you should have followed your own suggestion and raised the matter of changing selection rules at a previous AGM, then CS wouldn't have had to make rules up as it goes along.
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This is Andy M's 2014 method of avoiding getting himself in trouble
Perhaps part of the 'problem' lies with Scotland being a small nation, with very few strong players, and almost no investment in chess which might provide opportunities/incentives for the new generations coming through to view GM-level chess as a realistic goal/career.
Other nations (off the top of my head USA, for example) have already seen national teams consisting largely of 'incomers' - Kamsky/Gulko/Kaidanov etc.
It is not unreasonable to imagine the Scottish Olympiad team in a couple of years time being something like Keti Arakhamia-Grant, Matthew Turner, Andrew Greet and (let's say for the sake of argument) Jacob Aagaard (having switched allegiance once more).
So we would have Scottish through marriage, residency, single-grandparency and perhaps temporary residency again. A decent team which we would struggle to match with Scottish-born players, but would this team be 'Scottish' in any real sense of the word? Perhaps it would - I'm merely asking 
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