Appearance fees for our best players

[AndrewGreen]

I think it is important to point out that our top players do provide a lot for the chess community. The majority of them work for Quality chess. Quality chess produces the best chess books in the world. They have contributed greatly in the past directly to Chess Scotland but their focus is now on Quality chess which doesn’t just benefit Scotland but the whole world. They have put Scottish chess on the map with this company. Even whilst their focus has been on this company they have helped Chess Scotland. They provided a very good IM/norm event for players like Alan Tate and also sponsored the Scottish Championships in Edinburgh. I am sure they have done more but these are the things that immediately come to mind.

[Derek Howie]

To answer your question: you can not possibly know which of the two players has the most potential, or at least will achieve the most. I would back the player that was willing to work hardest. As I have said in the 'mindset' thread - so many of the 'naturally' gifted players drop up because they simply do not learn the work habit.

My feeling is that we should actually take a long term view and rather than spend resources on sending a few juniors to the Euros/Worlds we should be spending resources on making sure there is a national development scheme in place that ensures that all juniors are getting training and training in the right areas, so that when they do turn up at these events they already know their basic endings and their openings. The work done at these events should be more in the category of revision than anything else.

That is not the same as saying that players do not go, rather a question of what the priority is for CS's resources (and I include in this the over worked director's time).

Mike, that part was actually Phil's question, but I'll ask something that I'm not clear about. Are you suggesting that they would go to these events after learning their endings/openings and not be supported by CS as CS are putting their resources into a national development scheme? That CS would not financially support anyone wishing to attend the Euros/Worlds and the players go without a coach/head of delegation unless they were willing to finance it themselves?

if that was the case then would the IJD go from being over-worked to having no work at all?

[robin moore]

Mike Scott wrote,

My feeling is that we should actually take a long term view and rather than spend resources on sending a few juniors to the Euros/Worlds we should be spending resources on making sure there is a national development scheme in place that ensures that all juniors are getting training and training in the right areas, so that when they do turn up at these events they already know their basic endings and their openings. The work done at these events should be more in the category of revision than anything else

He may yet have to appear at the phone tapping enquiry!

[David Deary]

Andrew, I think we'll need to agree to disagree. The key word within what you have said is "work for Quality Chess" which is a business and like any business is ultimately designed to make money. I personally don't rank that as highly as volunteering and offering your time for free to coach, teach or support. In fact, come to think of it, its the opposite. On the issue of sponsorship - I think it is commendable but one swallow doesn't make a summer as the old saying goes.

In the interests of this thread not being highjacked I'll move back to the topic:

Mike said:

My feeling is that we should actually take a long term view and rather than spend resources on sending a few juniors to the Euros/Worlds we should be spending resources on making sure there is a national development scheme in place that ensures that all juniors are getting training and training in the right areas, so that when they do turn up at these events they already know their basic endings and their openings. The work done at these events should be more in the category of revision than anything else.

I again agree with Mike =| that we should spend our scarce resource on developing as many juniors as possible within the framework of a national development scheme. We need to take a longer term view and this would be to the benefit of junior chess in Scotland.

[Jacqui Thomas]

My feeling is that we should actually take a long term view and rather than spend resources on sending a few juniors to the Euros/Worlds we should be spending resources on making sure there is a national development scheme in place that ensures that all juniors are getting training and training in the right areas, so that when they do turn up at these events they already know their basic endings and their openings. The work done at these events should be more in the category of revision than anything else.

That is not the same as saying that players do not go, rather a question of what the priority is for CS's resources (and I include in this the over worked director's time).

I am not going to say too much about the adults v juniors as you can guess which way I would go but I would guess most adults have a full time job. Those that tend not to are the Norm hunters & it is they IMO that need the financial support to achieve their goals. It is they that should be offered the team places too to help towards those goals. It is they that should be encouraged to become paid coaches to help fund their aspirations & therefore in turn they are helping the juniors. Alex & others are right it is funding & sponsorship that is needed & anyone with experience in those areas are who CS need on board.

Mike,
Although I agree with your point about a national development scheme as it would be a great asset to all. I am confused over your comment about only sending a few to events & more to the point only the older age groups. It wouldnt save any money to reduce the squads going out to the events. Still need to pay expenses for Head of Delegation, still need to pay expenses for a coach, the hosts give the first player in each age group the accommodation & second players usually self fund & all players have to pay their own travel. So where would the money be saved? Surely it is better to give the younger ones the oppoortunities when the places are offered free by the hosts. I am sure that most players come back stronger than they went. Although I agree not all continue to play, at least they were given the opportunity to progress & a majority do. Please note that EU Youth, Mureck, Austria the free places are offered to one child for each age group U14's down only.

With regards to development & coaching the biggest problem has always been that the IJD has been expected to do something about it. The workload for an IJD can be considerable just coping with the events, let alone setting up squad days. More & more parents of the top juniors are now realising that for their child to progress quickly they need to have a coach. If they were doing another sport it is the route that would be taken to have a personal coach so it shouldnt be any different for chess. Logistics make it difficult for some & that is where the online coaching comes in. Where possible you cant beat one to one over the board & that is where local clubs can help their juniors. It would be great if more training weekends could be set up but the weekend you refer to that I ran cost £1400 & that was with every participant paying for their own accommodation & meals. I wish there were the funds to enable more weekends like that to take place.

[Andrew McHarg]

Whatever happened to playing Chess just because you enjoy it? Why does it seem like everything is about money all the time?

I highly doubt most juniors in Scotland start playing Chess with the serious ambition of earning a living out of it... unless their parents have brainwashed them into thinking it a realistic career.

I'd rather invest the budgets into sending the juniors abroad than pay for a GM to simply turn up at an event. I'd also rather see the juniors going and enjoying themselves and coming back having had a life experience, than feeling under pressure to perform because tons of money has been spent on them.

[robin moore]

When Paul MacDonald became the new IJD he asked me to help and I was delighted to do so.

Some things we have been concentrating on,

Healing political differences of the past between different chess organisations, regions and events.

Trying to set a template and standard that will be used as a basis at international events.

Identifying new people with fresh ideas to add to the excellent junior organisers already in place.

Setting up an online coaching structure for all juniors in the Scotland squad and fringes in addition to existing coaching.

We have made progress in all of these areas.

Robin.

[Hugh Brechin]

It's not all about money all the time Andrew. It's about the fact that if we want our top players - who are sufficiently good that they can expect to make at least some money out of the game from time to time - to give up a large proportion of their annual holiday to participate in a tournament where they're almost certainly not going to win any prize money (I've got no idea what prize money is available at an Olympiad - I'd guess for the likes of us the occasional board prize and little else?) it helps to be able to offer them some remuneration. People have other things in their lives, and expenses, and families to provide for, and significant others who have no particular desire to spend a fortnight in Siberia watching people playing a board game. (Some of these latter concerns are less pertinent for the Seniors, though some aren't.)

David, if you think running Quality Chess does less for the game in Scotland than volunteering at local clubs, then fair enough, but I think they play a valuable role - apart from anything else, they produce a lot of very good books that can be used to coach: the puzzle book by John Shaw springs to mind, for instance.

I think it's really important to get as strong a team out as is feasible. It's our national team. The pinnacle of Scottish chess representation in the world. As long as the financial requirements aren't crippling, I think we should be aiming to make it an attractive option for our best players.

That said, I'd absolutely agree with Alex that nobody should be having an either-or discussion about adult v junior funding. In the last few years, junior chess seems to have been doing rather well, and we've been able to field some pretty strong Olympiad teams (incidentally, Andy - too many Andrews in this thread, I refer here to our esteemed international director - the team might not have performed absolutely to potential in the last couple tournaments but I seem to recall Keti getting over the GM title line in 2008, which is definitely something to be happy with). I'm not sure this is an area in need of radical reform.

[robin moore]

Let me tell you how much help we have been offered so far by Scotland's so called "top" players towards help in any shape or form towards junior chess....zero point zero. Guys like Alan Tate, Matt Turner, Andrew Green, Calum MacQueen, Clement Sreeves, Hugh Brechin and Neil Berry amongst others have been terrific in their help and support. I don't mind naming and shaming, it's your money, have a think about it.

Robin.

[Phil Thomas]

Robin,

Resident in Scotland we have 4 Grandmasters

Jacob Aagard was IJD for a short time and a coach for youth squad meetings and at some international events. Both of my sons returned from Dublin where Jacob had been coaching fired with enthusiasm for the game. One of my failings as IJD was that I was unable to persuade Jacob to coach - demands of work and demands of fatherhood. In my view Jacob remains the most inspirational coach resident in Scotland.

John Shaw did much junior coaching over a period of perhaps 10 years.

Now do that math.

50% of resident GM's have provided significant amounts of coaching time in the relatively recent past.

There is nothing to be gained by hacking off a significant part of Scotland's players through their inactivity over the past 4 months. You owe them an apology.