Scottish Council election - Hamilton players

[Andy Howie]

The original post stated that Andy and Mike were standing at the local elections. No mention of parties. Andy being an independant was only revealed much later when others chipped into a political debate.

Previously we have had threads discussing members of the chess community who are standing in elections. This is no different. The fact that they are cs directors is incidental. The only electioneering they did was in their respective wards. Doing it here would not win them many votes.

With 2014 fast approaching and Scotland being given the opportunity to determine its right to self govern it is natural that we are going to have debates on the pros and cons. We have people from both sides of the argument all contributing to an debate. Given the effect it Will have on ourselves within chess it is natural, indeed some of the things we are exploring with the government Will be easier to implement if 2014 goes a certain way purely down to the fact we are dealing with one government rather than two.

The time is fast coming when we are going to have to make a decision on Scottish or British. There is a movement in fifa to have the home countries amalgamated and a certain English GM has stated that if he had the opportunity then he would do the same for chess. I think we have enough friends in FIDE to stop it if it happened. Actions have consequences which means we need to put party politics aside an examine the reality of what is in Scotland best interest. That is my wish for the referendum, that everyone examines the evidence and not the personalities behind it.

[Angus McDonald]

Well your deliberately not getting of the point is now in the open.

What you have made is a deliberately political statement not fitting of the CEO of a non political organisation which receives funding from the supporters of all Political parties. With a fair dollop of your own spin incorporated.
I have copied your outragious statement and shall be putting it in front of my MSP at my nearest convenience.

[Andy Howie]

I understand fully what you were getting it. It might be worth taking a wee look at the paragraph under the one you are referring to and then going back and reading your most recent post.

Angus, I have made no political statement. I stated a fact. I then countered the fact with a desire. That desire is that we all look at the reality behind the decisions, that is both decisions, to separate and not to separate. We examine all the facts, not the spin, not the politcal leanings but the facts and decide based on these facts, what would be the best for our country and our countries future. I would like to think that we can as a country make a sensible decision based on the available information we have in front of us and not because of political leanings.

Is that really an offensive thing to wish for?

I am a Nationlist. I make no secret of that. I would love for Scotland to be its own country, but I am not going to blindly put my cross on that ballot paper unless I know for certain that it is the right thing to do and there is going to be no negative consequence for my son and daughter. If there is I will have no hesitation on voting againt it.

[Mike Scott]

Angus
I guess I am a bit dim but surely by definition the only thing in the 'non chess related' section you should not be discussing is in fact chess! I mean I think politics qualifies as 'non-chess related'.

Provided the normal noticeboard etiquette are followed - deliberately twisting other posts to suit whatever point one wants to make and then accusing others of trying to deny your say because they disagree with you - then why not?

[Angus McDonald]

Mike,

It's normal etiquette in all non political organisations I have been a member of that Directors don't promote their politics in front of the Membership. That's particular important for Directors and Selectors. Robin got it and so did others who agreed that discussing politics on this noticeboard was not in the good interests of Chess in Scotland.
If Chess Scotland directors continue to promote their politics on this noticeboard then I will continue to state my opinions.
I am a very honest person Mike. Are you insinuating I have twisted someone's words? If so please tell me where it happened so I can apologise. Thank you.

Angus

[Angus McDonald]

I am a Nationlist. I make no secret of that. I would love for Scotland to be its own country, but I am not going to blindly put my cross on that ballot paper unless I know for certain that it is the right thing to do and there is going to be no negative consequence for my son and daughter. If there is I will have no hesitation on voting againt it.

Andy HowieAdministrator Posts: 241Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2011 8:40 am

So that's why you didn't apply an even hand when moderating the discussion then and attemtped to make me look unreasonable for requesting that Directors and Selectors do not promote their politics on the noticeboard.

or you genuinely don't get why Directors and Selectors should not be promoting their politics in front of the membership.

There are numerous reasons why they should not. I'm taking it that you can't think of even one good reason?

I really do think you think you are a law unto your own on these matters when you simply are not.

The clearly best option for my children and your children is having the best of both Worlds. It is not a Scottish or British question as you have attempted to make it appear.
We can be Scottish and British and your demon 'English Grandmaster' bogeyman isnae going tae change that. Perhaps you'd like to remind us when he last said anything on the matter and what he said?

[Andy Howie]

Angus,

You are right, I must be missing the point. Looking through the 8 pages I am trying to work out where the Directors and selectors have been overtly promoting their politics in front of the notice board. There is a lot of light hearted banter such as Andy Muir joining the Hamilton Chess Club branch of the SNP and being beaten by a penguin(?) but there is nothing that can be considered overtly promoting politics?

You have quite strong views on the outcome and I respect that. Many others have differing views and I respect them as well. it is one of the benefits of democracy that we can all have different views on things like this and express them without fear of reprisial etc.

[Mike Scott]

I really don't get it - I do not see what the issue is with directors (or otherwise) expressing a view on politics or whatever. I mean I would not take Andy's political views any more (or less) seriously just because he plays such an important role in CS. I would consider the points he makes and then disagree ( or agree) accordingly.

If there is a fear that a persons views might influence their decisions then surely it is better to know those views to better understand the decision.

With regards my earlier comment about twisting I used 'one' in the first half and 'you/your' in the second but Both were general points - the first we all tend to do - though not always deliberately - and the second is a more limited attribute of a few. There are a number of posters who frequently complain that their right of free speech is being squashed as soon as someone disagrees with their view.

[amuir]

The masterplan is to become independent on the 700th anniversary of Bannockburn in 2014.
We then become rich beyond our wildest dreams on the oil money.
After spending the money we get an English white knight to rescue us.
We rejoin the union on the 100th anniversary of the World Cup in 2066

[Angus McDonald]

The masterplan is to become independent on the 700th anniversary of Bannockburn in 2014.

Thanks to Andy M for highlighting this politics for infants. I get the feeling he isn't fully with the programme yet

Oh! how smart the Dear leader is if he picks the date of this historical victory over the English . Must be some kind of joke surely, or the final push in the 'Anti English' band wagon. If not what does this 'crass' symbolism mean? Granted it plays well to his core support but he'll have to come up with some pretty fancy bluster to explain this to the brighter ones amongst us.