Angus McDonald
Unregistered
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Age 16
J Rowson 2310; M L Condie 2285; P A Motwani 2250; E Dearing 2180; C S M Thomson 2170; I D Mackay 2160; J Redpath 2145; C W Pritchett 2136; A McClement 2111; C P Hall 2058; C MacDonald 2053; S Tweedie 2050; T L Milligan 2050; D J Findlay 2050; J Parkin 2040; S R Mannion 2035; D McGowan 2030; A D Green 2027; I McDonald 2023; C Woods 2013; D Griffin 2010; D A Holmes 2010; N A Bathie 2010; P E Roberts 2010; K Ruxton 2000; S J Willetts 1995; R A Wilkinson 1985; D Eynon 1965; E Rutherford 1960; D McLaughlin 1955
Posts: 462
Threads: 14
Joined: Aug 2011
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I see your point Angus, but a few things: 2100 Fide is significantly different from 2100 CS. This would need to be taken into account, along with rate of improvement and how long they have been playing for. Also, how many on this list would have pushed that bit harder if there was a clear goal to aim for? Just like rotating a football squad to create competition, players need to be kept on their toes to get the best out of themselves.
Angus McDonald
Unregistered
Alan,
Would rather discuss this offline because I feel strongly about this.
Briefly though.
What the Juniors going to the Euroyouth in less than 2 weeks time require imho is to hear that you believe in them and their ability. That especially for the younger players is important. Youngsters need to feel supported and believed in and some of the comments here you'd think were designed to knock confidence.
How hard to you think those juniors who have pushed themselves onto the All time highest Scots list have been trying? Look at Murad top under 12 ever!
As for rotation. Chess as an individual sport is more like other sports where you play your best team available and don't rotate. In team competitions you will sometimes be allowed a substitute player. Hopefully of similar ability.
Again, in my opinion.
Posts: 462
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Joined: Aug 2011
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My posts were not directed at anyone, just some general thoughts related to some past (and future) events. However, the U-16 list you showed does have numerous underachievers in it.
I am entirely happy with the squad going to Prague, and the door is open for anyone to wants to prove themselves. A good start would be 2-8 hours chess work a day for the next 10 days.... ;-)
Angus McDonald
Unregistered
You call them underachievers.
All down to them!! Nobody else has any responsibility. If they fail they are underachievers. If they succeed suddenly they belong. There will be no shortage of politicians to praise them if they do well.
I think they are mainly people who weren't supported enough. Masses of talent but the country wasn't interested in supporting them whereas numerous other countries do support their Junior Internationalists.
When you get picked over by your own organisers and coaches though it's the pits.
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Joined: Dec 2011
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I think that the rating goals issue is rightly discussed, because there are strong views on both sides, and both sides are making their suggestions for the good of junior chess. Perhaps start a new thread and lay out some ideas, and see if anything constructive can come of it?
Angus McDonald
Unregistered
I simply don't understand why anybody is advocating this at all.
If you are the best in your country and want to represent your country at a European or World level event then why would any National Federation want to stop you.?
Alan has qualified himself and said that those going to the Euroyouth have the chance to 'prove' themselves.
Well, that is always the case and always should be.
Angus McDonald
Unregistered
A debate about this at the 'right time' may serve to educate those who arnt juniors wishing to represent their country as to why the top juniors have the right to represent their country without those who don't have that capability, or who's time has passed to do so, stating they should have barriers put in their place.
It's actually the organisers and selectors and coaches for those going who should be defending those already selected for these events without allowing people to suggest they are not good enough.
If you must have 'the debate' then it should be had at the 'right time'
The fact it's not the 'right time' tells me that those adovocating these grading limits at this time havn't thought this through.
So it was Ian's age that was mentioned and the grade menioned was higher than Ian's grade. Out of yourself, Robin and Alan nobody defended Ian instead you praised Jamie's post. Really nice for Ian to read that 10 days before he goes to the Euroyouth. He'd much rather I say nothing allthough he's upset again by this but! Why should I keep quiet!!
Here's some things we could also debate.
Perhaps we could rotate the coaches? Perhaps coaches of the junior players should have a certain grading margin over those they are coaching say 500 grading points (Scottish grading) Perhaps coaches receiving funding from Government should have at least a 2000 playing strength? All would be more appropriate than having a go at the youngsters ability.
Angus McDonald
Posts: 400
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I tend to agree with Angus on this one.
My thoughts on a 'new' structure for junior chess:
A 2100 FIDE or Scottish Grading for a 16yo might be something to aspire to if we had the system that Pat detailed (that is used in Slovakia) but until we have such a system imposing a 2100 rating barrier would be exactly that, it would exclude players from representing Scotland. If we take it to the next logical step what would the rating barriers be for the Olympiad teams and the Seniors teams?
In my view, any system for development of juniors should afford equal opportunities to all players for improvement and I'm not greatly in favour of cherry picking players who are deemed to have 'potential'. As, I say certain people develop quicker or slower and learn in different ways. Any system we have would need to have a degree of flexibility within it.
Furthermore, it is not nice for juniors to read what could be considered as negative comments before they compete at various events this year. My brother reads this forum as I'm sure many of the Under 16s do. (He refers to me as a troll - not sure what that is!) I'm also sure the comments are not intended to be negative or to single out individuals but this is a debate that should be held offline. Perhaps, my skin is not thick and I am being overprotective but I'd be happier if we had this debate at a meeting rather than on the forum.
At any rate, as Angus alluded to, is this the correct time or place for this debate? Its certainly not the right place as this thread was for funding and ideally for providing ideas for those approaching their MPs/MSPs or local businesses to get additional funding into Junior chess. We've moved quite far away from that now. If the debate is to be held - create a new thread but I'm not sure we need the debate on an online forum as I mentioned above.
On the funding issue, I wonder if the structure (like in Slovakia) was in place before the governmrnt funding was granted or if the funding helped build the structure. Its something that it may be worth asking our fellow Chess Unions/Federations in Europe.
Growing old is compulsory, growing up is optional!
