Continuation of AGM - motion 1.2

[Ianbrownlee]

I'm concerned about the words compulsory membership as I'm sure it would have an immediate detrimental impact on chess club membership and increase the burden or raising chess teams for the leagues, although I would be happy to proved wrong. I also think that the chess Scotland web site could benefit from having a chess games engine to play games on

I honestly cant see the benefit of remote players playing in tournaments as for this to work as an arbiter would have to travel the opposite way to the remote location. Perhaps the cost for this could be met by the remote player as I can see the average chess Scotland member wouldn't be too keen to subsidise this. More often than not remote locations have terrible Internet connectivity.
On a more positive note team events would have a better chance as arbiter/supervisor costs could be met by teams/clubs and would open the door for specialised tournaments. To allow remote players in existing tournaments would cause more issues e.g what if the internet failed which in turn would hold up and interfere with the running of the tournament. How do you define remote? By distance and/or traveling difficulty? Who would you rather be: the local player who now travels to the tournament at his own expense, and effort as opposed to the remote player who travels a short distance. There is also the problem of booking a remote venue by the arbiter (certainly not by the remote player)

To sum up - keep a level playing field by having on line tournaments for chess Scotland members. It's impractical to mix entrants

[IMarks]

Comments so far, my own included, have referred to one 'remote' player. What if 2/3/4... 'remote' players wish to avail themselves of the option? Where do the requisite number of arbiters suddenly come from? Would players at the venue be truly happy with a guy's mate supervising him? And presumably the supervisor would have to be IT savvy in case of glitches. (I spent 45 minutes this afternoon dealing with a fairly minor internet hiccup. I certainly wouldn't want that sort of interruption during a game. How will organisers factor in unknowable periods of time to cater for this sort of eventuality?)

Remoteness works both ways. What if players in, say, Glasgow or Edinburgh, fancy playing in Inverness, but decide it's too 'remote'? In the interests of fairness, they would have to be allowed to play via the internet. What if 9 or 10 or more such players so wish? Where are all the necessary internet connections going to come from and be operated without distracting players at the venue? Would organisers have to shell out for another room, passing on the extra cost to all competitors, thereby probably resulting in fewer entries...?

In an ideal world I think the proposal has mileage. In the real world I have my doubts.

[Jacqui Thomas]

On a more positive note team events would have a better chance as arbiter/supervisor costs could be met by teams/clubs and would open the door for specialised tournaments.

I recall a match between MK & Bedfordshire team v Cornwall that was played in each of their own home venue with telephone communication & runners passing on the move. That was probably close to 20 yrs ago & well before internet technology being so widespread.

Just thought I would mention it

[Matthew Turner]

I understood the motion on remote players to give players the opportunity to participate in events where travel was impossible or impractical (not merely very time consuming or expensive). It seems to me appropriate to consider two scenarios for allowing players to play remotely

1. Their home is so remote as to make travel impossible (possibly only at certain times of the year)
2. They have a recognised disability that prevents travel

Let me give you an example, 2 players from the Shetlands Isles wish to participate in the Major Tournament at the Ayr Congress. We could say that they have to travel several days to get to Ayr or we could look at the possibility that they play their matches at the local community centre where the Internet connection will be fantastic. Of course they might collude and decide to cheat to take home the fabulous prizes on offer, but how likely is this really? What is the bigger picture?

Bringing opportunities to disabled and remote players is great publicity and it must open the way for various social inclusion grants. There are a lot of obstacles to overcome but lets look at the possibilities and lets get the balance right between regulation and trust so that if proposals come forward they are actually workable.

[IMarks]

Let me give you an example, 2 players from the Shetlands Isles wish to participate in the Major Tournament at the Ayr Congress. We could say that they have to travel several days to get to Ayr or we could look at the possibility that they play their matches at the local community centre where the Internet connection will be fantastic.

Matthew -

This sort of scenario would indeed benefit from such a step, but, fantastic internet or not, reliable arrangements would still have to be in place at both ends for the weekend.

Slightly off-topic, but I was thinking about it the other way around. Why don't some of the 'remote' enthusiasts try to organise a weekend congress, then they would be the ones who were local! Not as ridiculous as it sounds. A GM/IM tournament took place in Stornoway in 1995, and enthusiasts there organised a very successful simul by Keti back in June, so it looks like the will is there. Personally I would jump at the chance to play in, say, a Stornoway or Lerwick Open. Be an ideal excuse to visit!

BTW, not saying that the North-East is remote, but given the little hotbed of chess activity up there, whatever happened to the Aberdeen Congresses? Resuscitating that would be an ideal way for players in the area to play on their home turf.

[Matthew Turner]

If the Internet connection fails then ultimately the remote player would lose the game - what else could happen to avoid total chaos? That is an obvious downside to playing remotely, but I don't think that should stop it going ahead.
I am not sure how feasible it would be to have an open tournament on one of the Islands - I'd certainly like to go too. A GM/IM tournament involves relatively few players, so is perfectly possible if there is sufficient finance in place. Accommodation is much more of an issue with an open event.

[George Murphy]

With so many insights, there seems to be plenty of 'meat' on this particular Bonio to chew over. Certainly, enough to validate consideration by a Working Party. I'm not technically qualified, but I can read, and there are reams of history to show Chess Matches being played via all sorts of media: Radio, cable, telephone, correspondence etc. as well as by Internet/Skype. Other than scale, what's the difference between these examples and remote/disabled individual(s) being allowed to play 'away'? Innovate, innovate, innovate ...

Separately, doesn't this airing of ideas demonstrate the utility of this NoticeBoard to promote constructivedialogue? It's just this sort of exchange that will help to save time at the AGM.

George - the man with the Westies

[Alex Gillies]

Anything is worth a try to boost numbers playing - there must be grants available for these issues as well

As an aside -many moons ago there was a telephone tournament national schools qualifier and I got to the final against Michael Adams - I was exchange up (actually he sacked it and took over all my dark squares and was never in any danger) - referee/runner was Alex McFarlane.

No reason why we cant try a modern twist - one for Calum perhaps?

Also just like to thank David Oswald and Andie H etc for the Winter festival games - some interesting games : perhaps next time tag on a one day event or a weekend tournament / allegro/blitz.

Alex

[Alex McFarlane]

As an aside -many moons ago there was a telephone tournament national schools qualifier and I got to the final against Michael Adams

I remember that (so not totally gaga!).
It was a CEEFAX tournament with a three way phone connection. The was Alex, Michael and a CEEFAX guy (possibly John Saunders) who transcribed the moves onto the BBC teletext system more or less as the moves happened.

The way it was done was to imply that the games were actually being played over CEEFAX in some mysterious way.

[Hugh Brechin]

Also just like to thank David Oswald and Andie H etc for the Winter festival games - some interesting games : perhaps next time tag on a one day event or a weekend tournament / allegro/blitz.

This would be nice, but the problem is that the Alva Street venue really isn't very big, and was pretty much jam-packed as it was. Organising some kind of evening blitz would be just about feasible, but would result in some people pulling some very long days.